Dislikes and turnoffs

[garrison_keillor]

As of recent, modern cut-up has been bothersome to listen to; not much variation in sounds being used to the point where it makes modern wall noise look inventive.

Would be interested to hear some examples of this. I envision bursts of straight white noise being randomly thrown around the stereo field.

[Joie de la Blumpy]

A thing to ask is at what point "cut-up" might be substituted by "editing". Confused? Should be.

[Ineffable Slime]

Untitled tracks.

[SS1535]

A thing to ask is at what point "cut-up" might be substituted by "editing". Confused? Should be.

That's part of why this whole "cut-up" genre of harsh noise has always felt weird to me. When I hear "cut-up," I tend to think about Burroughs and all the philosophy surrounding his approach, not mearly a style of playing with your gear (which is what I take cut-up harsh noise to be, in general?). Besides, unless I am just very confused about the whole thing---and that is of course possible---none of the examples of modern cut-up noise that I have heard seem to use any actual cut-ups at all?

[SS1535]

Untitled tracks.

Unless you are Vomir, there is really no excuse!

[Remi]

Untitled tracks.

That's interesting, and very subjective imho.

I strongly dislike giving titles to tracks and I really disliked the one time a label forced me to create titles for my tracks on the release they were putting out as I didn't create them with titles in mind.

To me, titles for abstract music tracks take some of their mysticism or even intent away by influencing expectations from the listener. If you call the same noise track *Showering in rectal leakage" or "Sparkles of rainbow over the grassy land", my enjoyment of it will be different (the first one will do that I won't even bother to check it out, the second will leave me curious but scratching my head.) I'd rather have people be given a hint at a mood from the artwork or the name of the release and then make their own story about it.

[James Thompson]

honestly, i totally get why people go for untitled tracks. i feel like there's such a sharp drop-off in my creative energy when i finish recording a track and suddenly have to think of a track name, let alone an album title / cover. i suddenly go from the most inspired and excited creature in the world to a guy going "fuckin.. i dunno... this one is called Desk because i recorded it at my desk"

[adult human]

RE: modern cut up - I'd be inclined to agree that it's an area I lack much interest in. I find it to be one the areas of contemporary noise that most occupies a kind of flashy, rockist space where values of skill and technique are tacitly favoured in the presentation above most others. A lot of it comes off to me as equivalent to those youtube channels where guitar guys sit doing complicated tapping techniques on a $5000 8 string guitar with angled frets.

Someone made the comment that digital editing techniques - and I'd also suggest the arrival of specialist, 'cut up noise' centric equipment - has ultra codified these approaches into a load of identifiable and thus samey sounds. I've heard that point made before and think it's true.

Friendly caveat that there's exceptions to every rule and I can enjoy plenty of this stuff just fine on one level. I'm aware there are plenty of people here who create and enjoy that style. If it floats your boat then fill your boots.

[SS1535]

RE: modern cut up - I'd be inclined to agree that it's an area I lack much interest in. I find it to be one the areas of contemporary noise that most occupies a kind of flashy, rockist space where values of skill and technique are tacitly favoured in the presentation above most others. A lot of it comes off to me as equivalent to those youtube channels where guitar guys sit doing complicated tapping techniques on a $5000 8 string guitar with angled frets.

Someone made the comment that digital editing techniques - and I'd also suggest the arrival of specialist, 'cut up noise' centric equipment - has ultra codified these approaches into a load of identifiable and thus samey sounds. I've heard that point made before and think it's true.

Friendly caveat that there's exceptions to every rule and I can enjoy plenty of this stuff just fine on one level. I'm aware there are plenty of people here who create and enjoy that style. If it floats your boat then fill your boots.

What are these pieces of equipment for doing cut-ups? I only know of Jliat's great program.

[parasitenurse]

RE: modern cut up - I'd be inclined to agree that it's an area I lack much interest in. I find it to be one the areas of contemporary noise that most occupies a kind of flashy, rockist space where values of skill and technique are tacitly favoured in the presentation above most others. A lot of it comes off to me as equivalent to those youtube channels where guitar guys sit doing complicated tapping techniques on a $5000 8 string guitar with angled frets.

Someone made the comment that digital editing techniques - and I'd also suggest the arrival of specialist, 'cut up noise' centric equipment - has ultra codified these approaches into a load of identifiable and thus samey sounds. I've heard that point made before and think it's true.

Friendly caveat that there's exceptions to every rule and I can enjoy plenty of this stuff just fine on one level. I'm aware there are plenty of people here who create and enjoy that style. If it floats your boat then fill your boots.

What are these pieces of equipment for doing cut-ups? I only know of Jliat's great program.

trogotronic iron cross which is by far the most prolific, gen thalz cut up noise thingy synth, a slew of knock off iron cross products and “cut up mixers” that are just passive momentary switches, to a lesser extent shaker boxes with mute switches. however i dont personally feel there is a lack of sonic diversity in modern cut up. while a few of these pieces of gear have become mainstays of the subgenre (namely the iron cross and the shaker boxes with mute buttons) there is a vast difference in sound among at least the artists i pay attention to. even as techniques change, pedal sickness vs modular sickness for example. but lets consider developer vs nbdy, tef vs jonathan bergen, boar vs purgist’s cut up work, while there are similarities (hence the subgenre) these works are all vastly different. im not currently aware of any prominent mid cut up at the moment, but maybe its just not on my radar.

[SS1535]

RE: modern cut up - I'd be inclined to agree that it's an area I lack much interest in. I find it to be one the areas of contemporary noise that most occupies a kind of flashy, rockist space where values of skill and technique are tacitly favoured in the presentation above most others. A lot of it comes off to me as equivalent to those youtube channels where guitar guys sit doing complicated tapping techniques on a $5000 8 string guitar with angled frets.

Someone made the comment that digital editing techniques - and I'd also suggest the arrival of specialist, 'cut up noise' centric equipment - has ultra codified these approaches into a load of identifiable and thus samey sounds. I've heard that point made before and think it's true.

Friendly caveat that there's exceptions to every rule and I can enjoy plenty of this stuff just fine on one level. I'm aware there are plenty of people here who create and enjoy that style. If it floats your boat then fill your boots.

What are these pieces of equipment for doing cut-ups? I only know of Jliat's great program.

trogotronic iron cross which is by far the most prolific, gen thalz cut up noise thingy synth, a slew of knock off iron cross products and “cut up mixers” that are just passive momentary switches, to a lesser extent shaker boxes with mute switches. however i dont personally feel there is a lack of sonic diversity in modern cut up. while a few of these pieces of gear have become mainstays of the subgenre (namely the iron cross and the shaker boxes with mute buttons) there is a vast difference in sound among at least the artists i pay attention to. even as techniques change, pedal sickness vs modular sickness for example. but lets consider developer vs nbdy, tef vs jonathan bergen, boar vs purgist’s cut up work, while there are similarities (hence the subgenre) these works are all vastly different. im not currently aware of any prominent mid cut up at the moment, but maybe its just not on my radar.

Thanks, the Iron Cross looks really fun to play around with. I take it you just set multiple inputs to run on their own, and then just control which gets to come out through the box/mixer? That makes sense as a cut-up, not to mention appropriate for the name. Imagine running four samplers through it!

[ChicagoAnimal]

Personally speaking, I think the automation and CV control flexibility of modular gear makes cut-up noise have a lot more avenues of possibility. Shout out to Parasite Nurse, whose work I checked out recently from the WCN podcast and what she is doing is cool. However, you can go other directions than that, which I feel I is somewhat orthodox in final form. You can generate cut-ups to cut-up. You can take all the cut up and re-process. There's just so much you can do that saying modular is producing "same sounding cut-up" is really because people like a certain kind of of cut-up noise. Hell, what if you did cut-up Swedish-style tape noise? Cut-up ambient? Cut-up Jeph Jerman-style noise? Cut-up power electronics? Etc. etc. etc. etc.

[adult human]

There's just so much you can do that saying modular is producing "same sounding cut-up" is really because people like a certain kind of of cut-up noise.

I think this is precisely the point. Any kind of modern cut up style 100% proliferates only because people are fiends for that type of sound which is a good thing. But it's a way of creating sound that's highly centred around processes and techniques. The hallmarks of those things are gonna be present and identifiable even if you do put very different sources into your machines. Sample short enough fragments of whatever audio you want and scattergun it in a hard panned stereo field - you'll get the point quite quick! It's a valid enough observation of what might make it a more/less appealing sub category of noise despite what can technically be achieved with the approach.

I guess it's all about people's relationship with composition vs method, art vs craft and to what degree they favour different expressions of each thing. I've personally felt a lot of artists I really admire dropped off quite hard when they moved from crude methods of creating choppy sounds to a single modular rig that could more or less approximate it all, yet there'd be others who say that's the precise moment they got interesting. For every artist concerned it was a sincere following of what they found interesting, so hey ho.

[Joie de la Blumpy]

I feel eminently unqualified to comment as I remain for better or worse effectively oblivious to the nuts n bolts of these interrogations. But I'll take the point that, and this feels like an oooold argument, an overt, or shall we say for at least the more procedurally cognizant, an er overtly overt preoccupation with process might leave some cold. (I guess?)

But, y'know. There's an easy solution to that. (I'm sure）

[adult human]

But, y'know. There's an easy solution to that. (I'm sure）

Oh certainly. The solution is the easiest thing going. It’s happening all the time, everywhere. Right now even.

Though it’s worth highlighting that ‘nerds talking turkey on hobby forum’ doesn’t take place anywhere in the vicinity of where the problem in all the above lies.