Regional Sound

[Scream & Writhe]

Something discussed in the latest WCN podcast was how sometimes a project's geographic origins can be identified by a certain sound or approach. Finland was the topic in the interview, but other examples could be Sweden and parts of the US like the Midwest or LA (at least in certain eras), just to quickly name some. All areas with seemingly vibrant, or at least productive, scenes. Yet there are other regions with equally active scenes that don't necessarily have a "blanket sound" tying them together (Vancouver, for example). Is it possible to narrow things down and figure out why that is?

Ruralism was discussed as being somewhat of a factor in Finland, but the sprawling metropolis of LA can't account for that. Maybe it has something to do with collaborative works? Finland and Sweden especially seem to offer up collaborations quite regularly. Or is it that a region with a longer history of noise can continue to inform itself and maintain a "tradition" all its own?

Is it at all surprising that these regional groupings are even still as noticeable, what with the internet's wide-open frontiers and all of the cross pollination? It's a good thing, no doubt.

Of course not all projects maintain this identifying sound, but it does seem to exist.

Anyways, just thinking out loud here (this is the place for it). The questions are there.

[consumer]

Maybe the character identified in the local sound has to already exist at some level in the general perception of the region. So the words that one would commonly use to describe "Swedish noise" or "Midwest noise" or "LA noise" have to make sense as words that people might already associate with "Sweden" or "Midwest" or "LA." Whether climatically, culturally, historically, or however, if the noise evokes those at all, people will readily pick up on it and that's how the release ends up being remembered. And if a place is maybe perceived as a kind of generic city without a whole lot of character, or just not a place that most people spend any time having any opinion of, the listener doesn't have as much to pick up on that makes them go "oh, of course this is from _____, how could it not be?" I see this come up in metal reviews as well, bands from certain regions are very often spoken of as evoking that region of origin, or at least some mythologized stereotype of it, whereas bands from some other regions never are.

The Vancouver question is interesting, because "Vancouver industrial" very much is understood to be a thing (Skinny Puppy, Front Line Assembly, Numb), and the term even gets used as a reference point in describing European bands influenced by those. And I guess that's another thing that probably varies by region, how much overlap exists (if any) between what is considered the noise scene, and what is considered the industrial scene.

[totalblack]

Maybe an obvious opinion a lot of regional sound trends have a lot to do with live activities\exposure through local record stores. Younger generations are much more likely to be exposed to what's happening locally, and in turn become inspired by what they see\hear and start their own projects. Even looking at "Swedish noise" - there's a big difference between the GBG scene and Sundsvall, and I've seen new projects from both cities perform that have a sound that is flavoured by their community. Bigger cities like New York have a ton of different things going on, but there are projects that are undeniably New York, persisting through decades.

I don't know if I agree with you Taylor about Vancouver not having a localized sound. At least in the mid 2000s, there was a fairly distinct noise rock scene, with Shearing Pinx, Mutators, Sex Negatives, Channels 3x4, Twin Crystals, etc.. and the harsh noise of The Rita, Taskmaster, Sick Buildings \ Rundownsun. At least from an outsiders perspective it had a regional flavour. Compare that with what was happening in Montreal at the same time with The Swamp crew, Cousins Of Raggae, Thames, Dreamcatcher, Sunken Skulls, Pasalymany Tapes, Aidswolf \ Hambourghini, Cool Fest, etc. it was way more of a psyched out jammy vibe, Toronto was similar. Basically only Wapstan and Ames Sanglantes doing blistering harsh stuff around those years. I mean in recent years, things have certainly changed. Many of the old crew is no longer active, and a few transplants from Vancouver have seemed to influence things in a harsher direction (not complaining). Maybe I'm wrong in my observations here as I haven't lived in Montreal in years, but this is just what I see from the outside.

Similar thing with the Detroit sound, seems to almost be completely done with these days. Most of the main players now live in LA, and have for years. Likely this has had some sort of influence on what is now perceived as "LA noise"?

[Scream & Writhe]

I don't know if I agree with you Taylor about Vancouver not having a localized sound. At least in the mid 2000s, there was a fairly distinct noise rock scene, with Shearing Pinx, Mutators, Sex Negatives, Channels 3x4, Twin Crystals, etc.. and the harsh noise of The Rita, Taskmaster, Sick Buildings \ Rundownsun. At least from an outsiders perspective it had a regional flavour.

I was mostly speaking to noise specifically. Vancouver's noise rock scene is/was undeniable. And you are right about that mid-late 00s militant harsh noise front from that crew (maybe add Flatgrey to the mix, get the full Vancouver double 7" flavour). I do wonder if there is a general Vancouver sound at present- though I'm coming at it from more of an outsider's perspective having been away for over 7 years at this point.

[chryptusrecords]

parts of the US like the Midwest [...] seemingly vibrant, or at least productive, scenes.

really?? where is this happening? to my ears, all "regional sounds" began to collapse into leaning heavily on genre signifiers as internet proliferated, and this is only further nailed into the coffin by the virus dampening all live activity. for recordings from late 90s, it's very easy to tell, "this is a german project," and so on. now, how can you tell the difference between german harsh noise like jugendwerkhof and american harsh noise? without any signifiers, it's impossible. covid will reshape the very idea of a "local scene."

[Scream & Writhe]

parts of the US like the Midwest [...] seemingly vibrant, or at least productive, scenes.

really?? where is this happening? to my ears, all "regional sounds" began to collapse into leaning heavily on genre signifiers as internet proliferated, and this is only further nailed into the coffin by the virus dampening all live activity. for recordings from late 90s, it's very easy to tell, "this is a german project," and so on. now, how can you tell the difference between german harsh noise like jugendwerkhof and american harsh noise? without any signifiers, it's impossible. covid will reshape the very idea of a "local scene."

I did drop the "at least in certain eras" bit, but maybe it got construed as applying to the mention of LA (it was in fact meant for both the Midwest and LA). I don't know enough about what is or isn't currently happening in the midwest, but it was a certainly a spawning ground in the 00s (or at least appeared so to me). Maybe not everything had a similar sound, but either in aesthetics or approach there was something "Midwest" about it.

Maybe "sound" is too strict of a term. Maybe it's more ethos, concept, idea, execution.

Edit: And of course a lot of that has been diluted on account of the internet's ease of access and aforementioned increase in cross pollination, but I think there are still pockets out there where this regional "thing" exists.

[chryptusrecords]

oh yes I agree, i think mid 00's was the last time there was a combination of stable scenes and comparatively "big" names (wolf eyes on sub pop for instance.) i do still think of "midwest noise" with, like you say, a certain "aesthetic or approach," but my mental impression is from THAT era, a venn diagram of american tapes-type weirdness and straight ahead rust belt harsh noise.

"diluting," though, I am not so sure. i think there is a lot of potential in things becoming de-regionalized. how much of our perception of the "midwest sound," for instance, is looking back and remembering many wolf eyes clone bands? how much of "finnish sound" was determined by perception of well-known artists like grunt or bizarre uproar? even now, it's fair to say "finnish sound" means something very different. maybe "scenes" will coalesce in a new way.

[Scream & Writhe]

how much of "finnish sound" was determined by perception of well-known artists like grunt or bizarre uproar? even now, it's fair to say "finnish sound" means something very different.

This is true. It was maybe easier in the past to associate Finland with perverted aesthetics on top of disgusting noise, on account of the “big names” and labels. Of course that is just a generalization because there have always been exceptions to the rule (maybe the mass amount of Finns registered here can chime in with more accuracy), and maybe the perverted noise acts don’t make up the majority but just happen to be more well known/prolific. Viewing as an outsider there is no shortage of FA releases of that ilk, though.

It was even addressed in the latest WCN podcast, how labels like Satatuhatta are presenting different themes, “lighter” subject matter, injection of some humour (which was always present with projects like Umpio), as opposed to elements of depravity. Is the sound coloured by these different motives, or is it just perception?

[Haare]

Maybe an obvious opinion a lot of regional sound trends have a lot to do with live activities\exposure through local record stores. Younger generations are much more likely to be exposed to what's happening locally, and in turn become inspired by what they see\hear and start their own projects

In Finland, this is 100% incorrect, IMO. There's maybe 1-2 shops that carry noise in the whole country. No local venues really either.

[Scream & Writhe]

how much of "finnish sound" was determined by perception of well-known artists like grunt or bizarre uproar? even now, it's fair to say "finnish sound" means something very different.

This is true. It was maybe easier in the past to associate Finland with perverted aesthetics on top of disgusting noise, on account of the “big names” and labels. Of course that is just a generalization because there have always been exceptions to the rule (maybe the mass amount of Finns registered here can chime in with more accuracy), and maybe the perverted noise acts don’t make up the majority but just happen to be more well known/prolific. Viewing as an outsider there is no shortage of FA releases of that ilk, though.

It was even addressed in the latest WCN podcast, how labels like Satatuhatta are presenting different themes, “lighter” subject matter, injection of some humour (which was always present with projects like Umpio), as opposed to elements of depravity. Is the sound coloured by these different motives, or is it just perception?

Maybe "regional sound" is going to an impossible depth. Maybe the main topic question shouldn't be so much about whether a regional sound exists, but more simply if noise can identified by region via any number of factors overall (aesthetics, message, intent, sound). To which I would answer yes, for several reasons stated in everyone's prior posts. It might require pulling back a couple layers to detect them, and these identifiers would still only exist in pockets/regions, attributed to the vibrancy of their local scene, local record shop, prominence of local projects, etc. - without which there would likely be no telling where a project originates from.

Once again I'm no expert, just thinking some thoughts.

[Vivian]

It might require pulling back a couple layers to detect them, and these identifiers would still only exist in pockets/regions, attributed to the vibrancy of their local scene, local record shop, prominence of local projects, etc.

there are some parts of France with that configuration, mostly the center area, and factors I can identify are closely linked to self-sustaining (gardening for example) and "communautary" life.
Out of towns (Paris, Bordeaux, Lyon, Marseille for the biggest), there are not many noise people or "close to noise" people.
As Haare said, that's the same in France : there are 1 or 2 shops dealing with that.

what I can see, in France, is that you have a town sound (with more "classical" aesthetic or "attempted" aesthetic) and a rural sound, with more "personnal" aesthetic.
I think about guys such as william nurdin, gilles vignes, lauren rodz, kevin orliange, astreinte, ... whom have a particular "out of the road" way.

also, it depends of what is your definition of rural too. each one is the rural of the other maybe (Lyon maybe rural for a Parisian I mean).
comming from the mountains of Jura, to me rural = small villages under 5000 people.
you know what I mean. it's also the question of scale.

[junkyardshaman]

Edited out.

[junkyardshaman]

how much of "finnish sound" was determined by perception of well-known artists like grunt or bizarre uproar? even now, it's fair to say "finnish sound" means something very different.

This is true. It was maybe easier in the past to associate Finland with perverted aesthetics on top of disgusting noise, on account of the “big names” and labels. Of course that is just a generalization because there have always been exceptions to the rule (maybe the mass amount of Finns registered here can chime in with more accuracy), and maybe the perverted noise acts don’t make up the majority but just happen to be more well known/prolific. Viewing as an outsider there is no shortage of FA releases of that ilk, though.

It was even addressed in the latest WCN podcast, how labels like Satatuhatta are presenting different themes, “lighter” subject matter, injection of some humour (which was always present with projects like Umpio), as opposed to elements of depravity. Is the sound coloured by these different motives, or is it just perception?

Maybe "regional sound" is going to an impossible depth. Maybe the main topic question shouldn't be so much about whether a regional sound exists, but more simply if noise can identified by region via any number of factors overall (aesthetics, message, intent, sound). To which I would answer yes, for several reasons stated in everyone's prior posts. It might require pulling back a couple layers to detect them, and these identifiers would still only exist in pockets/regions, attributed to the vibrancy of their local scene, local record shop, prominence of local projects, etc. - without which there would likely be no telling where a project originates from.

Once again I'm no expert, just thinking some thoughts.

Nevertheless, even with the internet or all the information at your fingertips it is useless if you have no idea what to look for. For example I had no idea about any of the Finnish big names until fairly recently, definitely not when I started as I got to all of this through Japanese noise first and foremost.

[Remi]

It might require pulling back a couple layers to detect them, and these identifiers would still only exist in pockets/regions, attributed to the vibrancy of their local scene, local record shop, prominence of local projects, etc.

there are some parts of France with that configuration, mostly the center area, and factors I can identify are closely linked to self-sustaining (gardening for example) and "communautary" life.
Out of towns (Paris, Bordeaux, Lyon, Marseille for the biggest), there are not many noise people or "close to noise" people.
As Haare said, that's the same in France : there are 1 or 2 shops dealing with that.

what I can see, in France, is that you have a town sound (with more "classical" aesthetic or "attempted" aesthetic) and a rural sound, with more "personnal" aesthetic.
I think about guys such as william nurdin, gilles vignes, lauren rodz, kevin orliange, astreinte, ... whom have a particular "out of the road" way.

also, it depends of what is your definition of rural too. each one is the rural of the other maybe (Lyon maybe rural for a Parisian I mean).
comming from the mountains of Jura, to me rural = small villages under 5000 people.
you know what I mean. it's also the question of scale.

Speaking for myself, because France is small, yet it's big (the East of France is the same as Eastern Europe to me, coming from the super deep South West), but I think that besides these small very local communities, noise doesn't exist on its own, as a national scene, with its own network, but always belongs to that wider spectrum of "experimental music", sometimes subsidized but more often underground. The experimental and diy scene is huge (actually, there's tons of stuff happening here in Bordeaux) , but the noise artists in there are few and far between. I've never attend a proper noise show in my life, with only noise projects on the bill. I haven't seen anyone perform noise in like 4 years, too.

[Vivian]

ah merde.
don't you know Simon Maurette (from Peyssac, doing harshnoise in solo and playing noisecore in Grinder Bueno) or Olivier (audiocum) ?
There were a lot of freaks in 2010 around in Bdx with some noise fucking gigs, in Bègles, in "la centrale" (Bdx).
I agree with what you say about the "inexistance" of nationale noise scene in France too.
BUT
there are particularities of noise from the gutter of France and noise from the town too eh.

[Remi]

Hahaha. Of cours I know Simon. He comes from the village next to where my mom lives. I've seen Olivier a few times but we can't say we know eachother. We share common friends though.

I remember gigs in La Centrale and I believe that the ones in Bègles happened in a squat (l'Oukaze?) If yes they didn't really advertise what was going on there and it is far from the city centre so I never went. Again, everything is separated in their own little cliques and groups of people and even on a local level, it's hard to get the information around.

There are still noise nights happening every once in a while in a bar in the city centre but I've been avoiding that place for years now. I've played there quite often, saw tons of gigs there but it's a sketchy place where fights, theft and drug dealing happens a lot, and the owner is a shitty person. I've seen many bleak things happen there. I can't support that place anymore.

Oh well, haha.

[_TS_]

It's an interesting question. I've been thinking about this today. I have a very clear idea of a swedish, english, german, finnish or even "american" sound or vibe but no conception of a norwegian sound. Maybe it's because its something easier projected onto a place from the outside.

[chryptusrecords]

Maybe it's because its something easier projected onto a place from the outside.

yeah I think this is it...wherever you are, you have a bit more granular detail. i couldn't name "american sound," it would depend on region...

[Zalhietzli]

Third french chiming in. I'd say there is no "french sound" or french scene for that matters. Some well known names (Vomir, Tourette... well, help me if you think of more ?) and probably a parisian scene. But it's all just local connections and networking, nothing apparent from a foreign perspective I think. That said, there are some more regional scenes like in Rouen (Normandy) with great people setting up shows, releasing stuff and keeping it alive.
That makes me think, have you guys heard about Bruitisme ? It's a 24h non-stop noise festival set up by a guy in the east of France, sometimes held in other cities too (played one in Nantes on the west coast in 2016, 2017 ?). I never heard of something similar anywhere else, that's pretty crazy.

[Remi]

All the Frenchies who post here have played one or several Bruitisme editions. Who are the active people, labels and projects in Rouen, please ?

[Zalhietzli]

All the Frenchies who post here have played one or several Bruitisme editions. Who are the active people, labels and projects in Rouen, please ?

Paul of Autistic Campaign (label) / Prairie-Litière (noise) is the only one active in Rouen I can think of now.
There was also the noise duo Shinjuku Ni-Chome but they split up, one of the guy is living in Nantes now.
That's all I can name, I never lived there but played several times.

[Remi]

Thank you for the information. I had never heard of him/them before.

[Vivian]

Romain Hebert, running the label Ikebukuro Dada

[Zalhietzli]

Romain Hebert, running the label Ikebukuro Dada

Ha yes, forgot to mention. He was one half of Shinjuku Ni-Chome.

[truetildeaf]

Late to the topic, but I thought I'd chime in. The "midwest" sound (I think most of us would prefer "rust belt" or "no coast" since its more accurate regionally, save for a few Iowa and Nebraska folks) is something that's been explored in podcasts, interviews, and even documentaries (see City/Ruins), and I continue to support the idea that our physical and psychic landscape heavily influences us. Particularly if you look at Cleveland, we quite literally live amongst the death and decay of industry - the steel mills and such are mostly shuttered, collapsing, etc. and with it the socioeconomic conditions that shape our daily lives - we are left to live in the rusting and toxified environment. Up until the recent wave of gentrifying normies who decided they want to play urbanite, nothing about Cleveland was pretty. Most of it was dangerous. You had to be hard, gritty, and have a relatively bleak outlook if you were going to survive here. And if you spend maybe 5 seconds listening to a Skin Graft or Lockweld release you'd hear that immediately. I think you could say the same for Chicago, Minneapolis, Milwaukee... lots of grit and grime and decay make their way into the sounds of these cities' respective noise scenes.

Obviously, there's always exceptions to the rule... Michigan for example (I kid, I kid... sort of!) or the lush synths of Cleveland's Emeralds crew back in the day.