Jazz/subgenres

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Re: Jazz/subgenres

Post by dust »

https://theheatwarps.com/

discussing live miles davis from the electric period, i'm most interested in the 1975 live recordings, listened to dark magus this morning
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Re: Jazz/subgenres

Post by Namahs »

Listening now to Miles Davis "Jazz At The Plaza" live from 1958. Digging it.
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Re: Jazz/subgenres

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Tarkamt wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:23 pm
adult human wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:53 pm
Tarkamt wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:47 pm

That's such a great and comforting thought, no matter what fucked up shit life throws at you, there are probably some Sun Ra albums you've yet to hear.
I would like to hear of any favourites you have and would recommend. There's so much out there that checking out the ones friends and acquaintances enjoy is as good a way to get through it as any. I think the only albums I know in any depth are probably quite well known and obvious ones.
As much as I love his truly far out albums (The Heliocentric Worlds of Sun Ra Vol. 1 & 2, Disco 3000, Strange Strings, Media Dreams, Other Planes of There, Cosmic Tones for Mental Therapy, Astro Black, The Solar-Myth Approach Vol. 1 & 2, etc. ), The ones I find myself regularly returning to are the more traditional albums: Jazz in Silhouette, Angels & Demons at Play, The Nubians of Plutonia, Atlantis, Sun Song, The Bad and the Beautiful, and the live in Cairo album Horizon, which is just an epic ride and has a really special atmosphere about it.

Oh, and The Magic City.
That one is just merciless.
I've been trying to get into more Sun Ra lately, but the discography is just so vast, I kind of don't know where to start. He's the Pain Jerk of the Jazz world I find. My go-to has always been 1979's Sleeping Beauty, but I am also known to throw on stuff like Atlantis when I am in a weird and frantic head space. Neither are really all that great for just kicking back and reading or working on art or something. I get way to into the records and distract myself. If you have a particular record you find much more straight forward and traditional than these two, and feel it's worth recommending for the nights I read and work, I would be all ears!
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Re: Jazz/subgenres

Post by adult human »

Try ‘Lanquidity’ for that. Slick, mellow and gorgeous.
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Re: Jazz/subgenres

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adult human wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 5:22 pm Try ‘Lanquidity’ for that. Slick, mellow and gorgeous.
Thanks! Listening now. There is so much going on in the background, even just in the first track. I don't know if I would be able to concentrate on my reading, hah. Maybe I am just not good at multitasking after all!

I was just looking into his film from the early 1970s. Have you seen that? I'm wondering if it's a case of ~he should've just stuck to making music~ or not.
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Re: Jazz/subgenres

Post by Tarkamt »

Eighth Pillar wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 4:46 pm
I've been trying to get into more Sun Ra lately, but the discography is just so vast, I kind of don't know where to start. He's the Pain Jerk of the Jazz world I find. My go-to has always been 1979's Sleeping Beauty, but I am also known to throw on stuff like Atlantis when I am in a weird and frantic head space. Neither are really all that great for just kicking back and reading or working on art or something. I get way to into the records and distract myself. If you have a particular record you find much more straight forward and traditional than these two, and feel it's worth recommending for the nights I read and work, I would be all ears!
Angels & Demons at Play (1960) is probably my most played Ra album, it has everything I love about his music: haunting & memorable compositions that I never tire of, minimal yet rich arrangements, the raw unpolished recordings that capture the masterful dynamism of the Chicago-era Arkestra.

Also, if you want a lush & majestic hi-fi 50's jazz album that sounds like a futuristic Duke Ellington big band, try Jazz in Silhouette (1959). Another classic from the Chicago period, though this one is even more accessible than Angels & Demons at Play .
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Re: Jazz/subgenres

Post by Eighth Pillar »

Tarkamt wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 8:35 pm
Eighth Pillar wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 4:46 pm
I've been trying to get into more Sun Ra lately, but the discography is just so vast, I kind of don't know where to start. He's the Pain Jerk of the Jazz world I find. My go-to has always been 1979's Sleeping Beauty, but I am also known to throw on stuff like Atlantis when I am in a weird and frantic head space. Neither are really all that great for just kicking back and reading or working on art or something. I get way to into the records and distract myself. If you have a particular record you find much more straight forward and traditional than these two, and feel it's worth recommending for the nights I read and work, I would be all ears!
Angels & Demons at Play (1960)
Fuck, what a fantastic title for a Jazz record. Definitely going to check out both of these tomorrow on my extra day off. Your short gist on them sound nothing but appealing. Do you collect Jazz records or usually just stick to listening online? I couldn't help but do a double take on some of the prices his records are fetching on the ol' Discogs. Absolutely wild.
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Re: Jazz/subgenres

Post by Tarkamt »

Eighth Pillar wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:11 pm Fuck, what a fantastic title for a Jazz record.
The crazy thing is, that title perfectly describes the feeling of this album!
Eighth Pillar wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:11 pm Do you collect Jazz records or usually just stick to listening online? I couldn't help but do a double take on some of the prices his records are fetching on the ol' Discogs. Absolutely wild.
Soulseek is your friend... and it's still going strong! You can find ANYTHING on there, especially old, out of print records.
I've never been a collector per se, but years ago I used to have quite a few decent stacks of LPs, CDs, and tapes. A nomadic lifestyle, and eventually living in a country with no real record stores to speak of forced me to start a digital collection. Nowadays I support (especially contemporary) artists when I can, but have no qualms about downloading albums for my library.
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Re: Jazz/subgenres

Post by Eighth Pillar »

Tarkamt wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:42 pm
Eighth Pillar wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:11 pm Fuck, what a fantastic title for a Jazz record.
The crazy thing is, that title perfectly describes the feeling of this album!
Eighth Pillar wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:11 pm Do you collect Jazz records or usually just stick to listening online? I couldn't help but do a double take on some of the prices his records are fetching on the ol' Discogs. Absolutely wild.
Soulseek is your friend... and it's still going strong!
Oh, I'm on Soulseek hunting for recent raw black metal damn near every night. Shocked it's been around this long! I've only ever looked for jazz a few times on there, but one thing I appreciated it that the people sharing on there usually include relevant information about the recording that they are sharing. A long time ago I went hunting for a mono rip specifically of a Bill Evans Trio album (if memory serves me right) in FLAC format, as apposed to the more available stereo versions out there, and the person had a note with it detailing the exact pressing they used, what turntable and cartridge they had, the program that it was all fed through and all its specific settings. The nerd in me lit up. But I digress; yeah, I should start using it more for jazz. Thanks for the rekindle!

Do you have a preference when it comes to the main focal point of a recording? Piano, trumpet, saxophone? For me its the two former instruments over the latter that get me the most excited.
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Re: Jazz/subgenres

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Eighth Pillar wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:41 pm Do you have a preference when it comes to the main focal point of a recording? Piano, trumpet, saxophone? For me its the two former instruments over the latter that get me the most excited.
This ultimately depends on the arrangement of the band. I'd not relegate myself to only listening to specific types of lineup and sure enough some pretty interesting stuff can happen when 2 or 3 people playing lesser spotted instruments get together and jam.

However, I'm a big piano guy and 9/10 times will be stopped in my tracks by whatever it is that instrument is doing. A piano/bass/drums trio is very hard to beat in my estimation. Still, I don't think I could live my life without being able to hear a skilled jazz musician play sax...

Circling back to some earlier talk in the thread I do really love to hear guitar in a jazz setting however it's far rarer in my experience to find really notable players. It seems to swing between very polite, traditional playing styles and totally wild free stuff. Both excellent, no doubt, but harder to find people doing jazz and breaking away from that in more common place acoustic lineups.
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Re: Jazz/subgenres

Post by Joie de la Blumpy »

Lots of great Sun Ra recommendations in this thread. Personally, I think my go-to will always be Live at Montreux. It's right in that era that I would consider prime Ra (76') and swings from the dense big band shit through spaghetti-like piano noodle through straight up organ solo a la CCCCish psych-wash. Just a great entry point to the height of the powers, imo.

Slightly off topic, but for slightly stupid reasons, Lanquidity, title track, always has me digging up Sex With Sun Ra.
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Re: Jazz/subgenres

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I have wanted to get into some of the really free/abstract jazz, but have no idea where to start? Any recomendations?
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Re: Jazz/subgenres

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SS1535 wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:21 pm I have wanted to get into some of the really free/abstract jazz, but have no idea where to start? Any recomendations?
Albert Ayler Trio's Spiritual Unity is where I started and it is still one of my favourites.

I listen to a lot of free and spiritual jazz, but am now working on my bebop education. Been spending time with some hard bop releases from Jackie McLean: Let Freedom Ring and One Step Beyond. Both are fantastic and pair well with a hot cup of coffee first thing in the morning.
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Re: Jazz/subgenres

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yullowteef wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 1:21 pmAlbert Ayler Trio's Spiritual Unity is where I started and it is still one of my favourites.
I completely agree - this is the perfect “free” record, the perfect Ayler LP and the perfect starting point.

Coltrane’s “A Love Supreme” is also the most perfect album ever made and the perfect jumping off point between his classic quartet and his free wild and crazy final years. I absolutely adore both eras but this is arguably worth a listen, a re-listen if it’s been a while and worthy of spinning once a week if the need should strike you. My appreciation for Coltrane only continues to grow but this record might actually be worthy of the hype. “Kind of Blue” might be the DSOTM of jazz, this is the “Secret Treaties” (if I may make such bold statements).
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Re: Jazz/subgenres

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yullowteef wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 1:21 pm
SS1535 wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:21 pm I have wanted to get into some of the really free/abstract jazz, but have no idea where to start? Any recomendations?
Albert Ayler Trio's Spiritual Unity is where I started and it is still one of my favourites.

I listen to a lot of free and spiritual jazz, but am now working on my bebop education. Been spending time with some hard bop releases from Jackie McLean: Let Freedom Ring and One Step Beyond. Both are fantastic and pair well with a hot cup of coffee first thing in the morning.
Thank you!
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Re: Jazz/subgenres

Post by Atrophist »

I must admit that Jazz and Prog are the only genres of music where I’ve never been able to discover anything I personally enjoy.

Obviously this is my own problem and there’s nothing wrong with said genres or people who perform in them, or the folks who are fans of them.
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Re: Jazz/subgenres

Post by yullowteef »

Speaking of Coltrane, let's not forget about Alice! Multiple amazing albums and she took the spiritual and free playing to a different realm. I recently watched a fantastic short doc with her and everything about it is perfect.

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Re: Jazz/subgenres

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Anyone else enjoy SKRIM?
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Re: Jazz/subgenres

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I find myself strsngely conservative when it comes to jazz. It's not that I don't like it free, wild and "out there", but I definitely prefer it less so. It's the classic Blue Note, Atlantic and calmer Impulse titles I return to the most. Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers, Coltrane before Ascension, Charles Mingus, Wayne Shorter, Miles Davis pre electric (Miles Smiles being my favorite), Max Roaches own records etc.

Oh, and this fantastic record, and this amazing tune which I consider truly life-elevating. Up there with Coltrane's "Psalm":
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Re: Jazz/subgenres

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Capers wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:37 pm I find myself strsngely conservative when it comes to jazz. It's not that I don't like it free, wild and "out there", but I definitely prefer it less so. It's the classic Blue Note, Atlantic and calmer Impulse titles I return to the most. Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers, Coltrane before Ascension, Charles Mingus, Wayne Shorter, Miles Davis pre electric (Miles Smiles being my favorite), Max Roaches own records etc.

Oh, and this fantastic record, and this amazing tune which I consider truly life-elevating. Up there with Coltrane's "Psalm":
Broadly speaking I think I'm in the same boat. I've got plenty of time for wild blowing and wailing but tend toward far more melodic work - particularly slower, broodier numbers like the Stan Tracey you posted. Also when I do dig into freer work I prefer quite a minimal lineup which can lend itself to more introspective, quiet exploration: the Derek Bailey and Anthony Braxton duo albums are a decent example of that at times.

I suppose I connect a love of Jazz to some far more 'normal music' impulses more so than an outgrowth of the weird shit. Mostly I find myself interested in those chords and that interplay between the musicians holding them down. It took me a long time to appreciate free jazz of any kind despite/because of many years of being into early Coltrane and random Blue Note albums I'd get given for Xmas as a kid. There's so many different things that take place under the umbrella of Jazz...I understand why you get these obsessives who never leave a certain decade in their listening.

A few slow, broody jams I return to often:







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Re: Jazz/subgenres

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adult human wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 2:52 am
Thanks for this one. Was unfamiliar with that album and have played it a couple times since this posting, really great.
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Re: Jazz/subgenres

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One of the luckiest things in my noise career was sharing the bill with Arthur Doyle Electro Acoustic Ensemble during my 2nd gig as tinnitustimulus in 2006 when I was still in high school. I don't know how he could play sax with no teeth, but it was one of the wildest saxophonists I have heard on record let alone live. Alabama Feeling one of the most fucked up albums I've heard. Theres some dvdr I have of him and rodger stella collabing, two of the most fried brains I have ever known into one very dissociated astral projection.

I feel like early Archie Schepp is underrated, I got New Thing at Newport, and his side as more wild than the Coltrane side.

Before Bob James became a powerhouse songwriter and one of the most sampled artists of all time he made a record for ESP Disk called Explosions, that included some Gordon Mumma and Robert Ashley noisey experiments. Despite his success he considers it his favorite record.

Patty Waters Sings is one the most important records catharsis in general, let alone jazz. I'd suggest listening to the whole album to give the B side context.
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Re: Jazz/subgenres

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Been listening to Ben Webster a lot latetly, mainly this two:



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Re: Jazz/subgenres

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FREE JAZZ ISN'T FREE

Post by xIncorruptibleCorpse777x »

What are some of your favorites? Albert Ayler? Ornette Coleman? Sun Ra? What are some more recent releases that have hit you hard?

As far as classic albums go, Sun Ra's Pathways to Unknown Worlds and Space is the Place are my favorites. Pharaoh Sanders is another artist I like, but I don't have any specific albums of theirs I can bring up. I like Albert Ayler and Ornette Coleman, too, but I can't name any specific albums that stand out to me, either. Anyone have any recommendations? Also, I'm not real familiar with Borbetomagus, which is ironic, given that they're newer and how influential they are to current stuff.

I'm more familiar with more recent stuff, mainly due to having more access to it. Wasteland Jazz Unit/Ensemble is from my city and they both play live a lot and do a fair amount of collaborating. That includes a live set with Sissy Spacek, where SS played noisecore (the noise-grind stuff) and it added a dimension to it that I'd never heard before. Totally blew me away. Best grind set I've ever seen in my life and I've seen bands like Napalm Death is Dead.

Torn Light Records have put out releases from both Crazy Doberman (an LP of which is on its second pressing) and a CD by New Monuments (led Don Dietrich and Ben Hall, used to have C. Spencer Yeh of Burning Star Core as a member). I saw CxDx once (sounded like free-jazz meets Hawkwind), but not NxMx (yet). The latter has a really sick track on their TL CD, which you need to hear:

https://tornlight.bandcamp.com/track/la ... embouchure

And of course, you need to hear NxMx's Long Pig album, which you can find here:

https://newmonumentsband.bandcamp.com/album/long-pig
Last edited by xIncorruptibleCorpse777x on Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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