Production Techniques

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Residual / RT
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Re: Production Techniques

Post by Residual / RT »

Joie de la Blumpy wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 9:48 am
Residual / RT wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 5:48 am
Joie de la Blumpy wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 1:15 am I think it's interesting that the lexicon has developed to the point where music is no longer music but a collection of files.

Time to walk away?
Maybe stop posting on drugs
That is certainly one response. If, on the other hand, the above is to represent the best we've got going, it is quite possible that more drugs are needed!
I have no idea what you're on about. The discussion was about the need to trim raw mixes or recorded stems, which Audacity is more than capable of. Maybe I'll just ignore you in this thread from now on.
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Joie de la Blumpy
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Re: Production Techniques

Post by Joie de la Blumpy »

Residual / RT wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 10:28 am I have no idea what you're on about.
Just riffing on one of the earlier posts in the thread, re- "limitations breed creativity", but will concede the wording was in poor taste (on my part). On one level, I'm all for the most efficient means of editing a piece of digitized sound. At the same time, I would not want to ignore the inevitable critiques that might crop up along the way.
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Re: Production Techniques

Post by Residual / RT »

Joie de la Blumpy wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:10 am
Residual / RT wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 10:28 am I have no idea what you're on about.
Just riffing on one of the earlier posts in the thread, re- "limitations breed creativity", but will concede the wording was in poor taste (on my part). On one level, I'm all for the most efficient means of editing a piece of digitized sound. At the same time, I would not want to ignore the inevitable critiques that might crop up along the way.
Why would anyone critique simple trimming of a rough mix, stem or master? That's like the least amount of editing you need to do for a release.
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Re: Production Techniques

Post by Joie de la Blumpy »

Residual / RT wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:13 am Why would anyone critique simple trimming of a rough mix, stem or master?
I'm not sure that anyone was critiquing the idea of trimming a piece of sound, but rather the method(s) involved. My "in" was how this has infiltrated the way we talk about music, sound, art, whatever. The language we are using.

Let me plainly say, I don't necessarily buy the criticism. But still I think it is interesting. If I didn't think it was interesting, I wouldn't be on a discussion board. I'd be quietly making my noise and ignoring what any and all had to say about it. Perhaps that would be for the best.
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Re: Production Techniques

Post by Joie de la Blumpy »

In my lifelong quest to get through a single day without making a fool of myself, it seems that for once I have a "serious" question. Cause y'know, noise is some serious shit.

Here's my goal: transfer some dusty old tapes to digital media that is potentially releasable, staying as close to the source as humanly possible.

Here's my question:

Would it be better to

a) record the shit straight to DAW, with the purest possible signal, and then fiddle with EQs n such

or

b) feed through an EQ-torqued analog mixer prior to the DAW, with a marginally diddled signal, and then fiddle with EQs n such

Based on three months worth of batting my head against the wall, I'd have to assume that a) is the way to go. It seems cleaner, more faithful to the recording. But I'd wonder if there were a sort of consensus as to one vs the other.
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theworldisawarfilm
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Re: Production Techniques

Post by theworldisawarfilm »

Joie de la Blumpy wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:38 am In my lifelong quest to get through a single day without making a fool of myself, it seems that for once I have a "serious" question. Cause y'know, noise is some serious shit.

Here's my goal: transfer some dusty old tapes to digital media that is potentially releasable, staying as close to the source as humanly possible.

Here's my question:

Would it be better to

a) record the shit straight to DAW, with the purest possible signal, and then fiddle with EQs n such

or

b) feed through an EQ-torqued analog mixer prior to the DAW, with a marginally diddled signal, and then fiddle with EQs n such

Based on three months worth of batting my head against the wall, I'd have to assume that a) is the way to go. It seems cleaner, more faithful to the recording. But I'd wonder if there were a sort of consensus as to one vs the other.
One option is not really "better" than the other here...


If you're trying to "stay as close to the source as humanly possible" well the answer, as you said, seems obvious. Dump it into the computer with a high sampling rate. Just do both, compare, and decide which you like more. Such is mixing. Simple as. The proof of the pudding is in eating.
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Post by Joie de la Blumpy »

theworldisawarfilm wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:56 am
Joie de la Blumpy wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:38 am Would it be better to
a) record the shit straight to DAW, with the purest possible signal, and then fiddle with EQs n such
or
b) feed through an EQ-torqued analog mixer prior to the DAW, with a marginally diddled signal, and then fiddle with EQs n such
One option is not really "better" than the other here...


If you're trying to "stay as close to the source as humanly possible" well the answer, as you said, seems obvious. Dump it into the computer with a high sampling rate. Just do both, compare, and decide which you like more.
Much thanks! I deleted this, but might as well re-up- I managed to completely fuck the right ear a few moths ago, smack dab in the middle of all this, through an accident of no fault of loud sounds (ironically). So I'm currently in this weird space of not being able to trust my own ears. Not an enviable space.

I think on some level I think I've always felt that a front-loaded analog diddle was somehow preferable to a digital diddle. But the (less than trustworthy earholes) seem to say otherwise.
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theworldisawarfilm
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Re:

Post by theworldisawarfilm »

Joie de la Blumpy wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:14 am
theworldisawarfilm wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:56 am
Joie de la Blumpy wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:38 am Would it be better to
a) record the shit straight to DAW, with the purest possible signal, and then fiddle with EQs n such
or
b) feed through an EQ-torqued analog mixer prior to the DAW, with a marginally diddled signal, and then fiddle with EQs n such
One option is not really "better" than the other here...


If you're trying to "stay as close to the source as humanly possible" well the answer, as you said, seems obvious. Dump it into the computer with a high sampling rate. Just do both, compare, and decide which you like more.
Much thanks! I deleted this, but might as well re-up- I managed to completely fuck the right ear a few moths ago, smack dab in the middle of all this, through an accident of no fault of loud sounds (ironically). So I'm currently in this weird space of not being able to trust my own ears. Not an enviable space.

I think on some level I think I've always felt that a front-loaded analog diddle was somehow preferable to a digital diddle. But the (less than trustworthy earholes) seem to say otherwise.
Very sorry to hear (har har) about your ear. In that case, (call me Captain Obvious) pass the mixes on to some peers and ask their opinion on a little A/B testing.

I tend to "front-load" my stuff before it goes into the computer (i.e. it is mixed analog and printed to tape) and once it goes in I tend to not muss with things too much. You might be inclined to do work "in the box" (as I am) when you're having some persistent problem and are unable to address it "by ear" and wanna use your eyes instead.
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Re:

Post by Remi »

Joie de la Blumpy wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:14 am
theworldisawarfilm wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:56 am
Joie de la Blumpy wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:38 am Would it be better to
a) record the shit straight to DAW, with the purest possible signal, and then fiddle with EQs n such
or
b) feed through an EQ-torqued analog mixer prior to the DAW, with a marginally diddled signal, and then fiddle with EQs n such
One option is not really "better" than the other here...


If you're trying to "stay as close to the source as humanly possible" well the answer, as you said, seems obvious. Dump it into the computer with a high sampling rate. Just do both, compare, and decide which you like more.
Much thanks! I deleted this, but might as well re-up- I managed to completely fuck the right ear a few moths ago, smack dab in the middle of all this, through an accident of no fault of loud sounds (ironically). So I'm currently in this weird space of not being able to trust my own ears. Not an enviable space.

I think on some level I think I've always felt that a front-loaded analog diddle was somehow preferable to a digital diddle. But the (less than trustworthy earholes) seem to say otherwise.
Hey! Very clinically deaf person here. If l may, mix first with your ears, then with your knowledgeable friends , last with machines. Machines don't know what's good for you. Eyes can see but you don't listen to noise with your eyes. Nobody does. If digital clipping sounds good to you, then it does even if your computer, vu-meters or pressing plants say otherwise. Messed up ears don't prevent you from making aesthetical choices according to what you hear, nor do they hear things wrong. They just hear. The same way people have different tolerance to spices or visual stimulus. We all hear things differently and feel differently.

I ask my friends for input at times when it comes to mixing normal music but noise? Nah, my ears, my noise, my rules.
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Re: Production Techniques

Post by Residual / RT »

Mixing noise = creating noise. Mastering noise is a technical process, mixing noise is a creative process.
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Re: Production Techniques

Post by Zalhietzli »

Residual / RT wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:26 am Mixing noise = creating noise. Mastering noise is a technical process, mixing noise is a creative process.
True ! I consider mixing a two part process : writing (volume/pan automation, coarse EQing) and whatever wizard shit (like fucking compressors) I have proper sound people do to my tracks to make them sound "right".
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Re: Production Techniques

Post by xIncorruptibleCorpse777x »

I haven't read this whole thread, but the other day, I finally got back to making harsh noise after seven years of not doing that. And my experience has led me to realize just how important it is to have a good source material. Does anyone have any general advice on that as far as creating it goes? I already know how to manipulate static and drones well (and always experiment with new ways of doing that). But I am very limited in my knowledge of how to create static. And no, I'm not asking you for your secret methods - just basic knowledge on how to find good source material. I'm fully capable of figuring out what tones I like. It's just a matter of learning how to go about gathering source material. I can't even think of what kind of field recordings I would even go for. Ask to be let into a factory? Go to a construction site? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Re:

Post by Joie de la Blumpy »

Remi wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:00 am Messed up ears don't prevent you from making aesthetical choices according to what you hear, nor do they hear things wrong. They just hear.
That's actually quite reassuring, coming as it does from a person responsible for the some of the most interesting and nuanced textural explorations currently going.

Now kids, don't y'all take that as encouragement to go deliberately messing up your ears or nothing!
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Re: Re:

Post by Remi »

Joie de la Blumpy wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:04 pm
Remi wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:00 am Messed up ears don't prevent you from making aesthetical choices according to what you hear, nor do they hear things wrong. They just hear.
That's actually quite reassuring, coming as it does from a person responsible for the some of the most interesting and nuanced textural explorations currently going.

Now kids, don't y'all take that as encouragement to go deliberately messing up your ears or nothing!
Hah, thanks a lot man.
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Re: Production Techniques

Post by SS1535 »

xIncorruptibleCorpse777x wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 6:47 pm I can't even think of what kind of field recordings I would even go for. Ask to be let into a factory? Go to a construction site? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I got some good ones recently recording a loud air vent in a public bathroom. Carry a recorder with you everywhere and the inspiration finds itself!
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Re: Production Techniques

Post by Residual / RT »

Yeah just record everything and then run it it thru your gear. Just made a track of me fucking around with a zipper and a gym bag full of empty plastic bags,with pedal noise on top. everything is a potential sound source.
Last edited by Residual / RT on Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Production Techniques

Post by housepig »

I got some great source sounds from putting a Zoom recorder inside a medium sized hard-shell suitcase, and alternately hitting the outside with various objects or scratching across the outside. the reverberation inside the case was great. also small microphones are handy, you can put them down inside milk jugs or glass bottles and tap / scratch / scrape the outside.
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Re: Production Techniques

Post by xIncorruptibleCorpse777x »

Thanks!!!! That is all super-helpful!!!!
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