Progressive Rock/Fusion/Jazz Rock/etc

[adult human]

It can't just be me and T.D. who go in for this stuff...c'mon, reveal yourself and don't be ashamed.

I've lately been diving deep into a lot of French stuff which has caused me to visit a lot of Magma albums I'd not heard before. Despite being a fan I always put them on the back burner a bit, reasoning I'll be able to wade into that discography any time but scoping out the legions of obscure groups they influenced got me checking out their S/T debut as well as 2004's K.A. which is actually fucking fantastic despite what you might think of an album so late. You'd be able to convince me it came out right in the midst of their late 70s work, no problem.

Another noteworthy stop in this recent journey had been Bernard Paganotti's Paga from 1985. This has nice, lurid mid 80s studio style versions of tunes intended for the unmaterialized 2nd Weidorje album and the whole thing is pretty great, particularly if you have a tolerance for the bombast of that kinda time period.

Was also digging pretty hard on Xalph lately too who, for my money, are one of these Zeuhl groups who took it all in a pretty interesting direction. Jazzier, chordsier, more free and psyched out. Worth checking out.

On quite a different end of the spectrum I was also checking in with some Cheer-Accident material I was unfamiliar with. Some people, depending on who you speak to, would tell you this is more in the realms of some sorta experimental alt rock stuff but I think it's fairly nailed on prog tbh and anyway, 'prog' is a term that can and should apply to a whole lot more than most folk allow it to. When I used to listen to/play in oddball 'math rock' type bands my dad would always say it sounded like Gentle Giant to him. I agree.

[moozz]

Magma is excellent! It was a great moment to finally see them live something like 6-7 years ago.
Rush has a bunch of excellent albums out, Eloy as well. Phoenix's Cantafabule is brilliant, Osiris's Myths And Legends is catchy as hell (and the only album by a band from Bahrain in my collection).
I'm also a big fan of the more psychedelic end of the prog spectrum as I love bands like Ozric Tentacles, Quantum Fantay and Hidria Spacefolk.
No shame in digging progressive rock in addition to harsh noise :)

[holy ghost]

This is my kind of topic!

I love tons of prog from the real big 70’s players like Yes, ELP and KC to the Zeul stuff like Magma, fusion like Soft Machine, the darker stuff like Van der Graaf Generator and the “safer” stuff like Uriah Heep and I love the weird Swedish stuff like Trad Gras Och Stenar and International Harvester.

I’m also a HUGE Rush fan including the synthier 80’s era and I’m an even bigger Genesis fan - I love the Peter era but I have equally enjoy the Phil era, prog and pop.

I don’t really dabble in newer prog too much but I enjoy the Diagonal LP on Rise Above and the band Black Bonzo from Sweden. I also really love the Reverend Bizarre side project Orne, particularly the LP which is just perfect for me. I’m sure there’s a few others out there I’m forgetting but any newer suggestions for bands “doing it right” are welcome here!

[adult human]

the darker stuff like Van der Graaf Generator

VDGG are still a bit 'to do' for me. My dad loves them and would play Pawn Hearts often and even got me a cd copy of it when I was a teenager which I still have and listen to quite a bit. But beyond that I don't think I have ever meaningfully listened to anything. My friend just recently saw them live and said that they were quite loose and sloppy at times - pushing themselves to play songs that little bit more complex and tight than they are consistently capable of, especially given their ages now. I actually quite like this idea - that a band isn't guaranteed to nail it every time live despite the decades those tunes have been in existence. Makes me feel better about myself, anyway.

I don’t really dabble in newer prog too much but I enjoy the Diagonal LP on Rise Above

Diagonal are/were local to where I live and I got to see them on quite a few occasions. At the time I enjoyed it and used to listen to that album a lot but now I just think it's kind of self-aware, pastichey crap. As if a band were just influenced by 'old prog' in general rather than any specific sounds or elements of that way of making music. The whole thing with using all the vintage equipment and throwing all these studied moves and tropes into the mix. zzzz. A part of this dismissive assessment is definitely down to the aloof, smug vibes a few of those guys emanated too so whatever.

Newer stuff is a tough one and I don't know that I could recommend much off the top of my head. A lot of decent contemporary stuff I can think of is or was being done by bands who started up in the 80s/90s and have kept going. Definitely open to hearing about other new things. Whilst in no way reasonably described as a 'prog band' there is an excellent British group called Field Music who undoubtedly bring some of that influence into their stuff and execute it brilliantly. Far more of a pop/songwriter group but plenty of their stuff has nice dollops of Genesis/Peter Gabriel, Gentle Giant and Yes tinged chops and hooks in the mix.

[holy ghost]

Diagonal are/were local to where I live and I got to see them on quite a few occasions. At the time I enjoyed it and used to listen to that album a lot but now I just think it's kind of self-aware, pastichey crap. As if a band were just influenced by 'old prog' in general rather than any specific sounds or elements of that way of making music. The whole thing with using all the vintage equipment and throwing all these studied moves and tropes into the mix. zzzz. A part of this dismissive assessment is definitely down to the aloof, smug vibes a few of those guys emanated too so whatever.

Disappointing to hear, but that first LP came out at a time when I was so heavy into discovering a lot of prog stuff I’d ignored as I was too punk and it was just such a breath of fresh air. I’m listening to the LP now and still sounds good to me. I recall not liking the second LP as much and I see they have a few more LPs out. I may have to see if they’re on Tidal….

I forgot one newer band that I really clicked with was Black Mountain - In The Future, Wilderness Heart and IV are really great - maybe not straight “prog” but lots of elements of heavy psych and lots of synths. I didn’t really care for the last one at all though.

[T.D.]

I do indeed fuck heavily with many prog/related offshoots. Where to begin? 

It might not be immediately obvious (or interesting?), but there is certainly a connection to the primordial days of noise. One recurring theme I've noticed when talking to older guys is how before there was anything resembling an underground scene/tape trading network they would all hone in on the weird "freakout" parts on various well distributed prog (or more broadly popular rock) albums. To a lot of teenagers open to discovering something beyond mainstream culture at the time, especially those residing outside major cities, this (along with, say, a beat up library copy of Indeterminacy or The World of Harry Partch) often served as a gateway of sorts to reconceptualizing what music could be.  

Bands like Yes, King Crimson, ELP, of course Pink Floyd were huge in the 70s and they all had lots of weird bits of jamming, electronics, atmospheric interludes etc. on even some of their most popular songs you could hear on any radio station. Steven Stapleton has of course mentioned this, and many of the Japanese innovators have also been very vocal about their love of prog/kraut rock etc. Noisextra even did an episode about the Tangerine Dream album Zeit because so many Japanese artists mentioned it as an influence. 

I imagine most noise fans don't give a shit about any of this at this point, and I don't know that they should. I personally think the music stands on its own, but it's worth considering in the context of a noise-centered forum I guess. Anyway, I'm big on Yes, King Crimson (thru Red), VdGG (thru World Record, plus Peter Hammill into the early 80s), Magma, Gentle Giant, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Hatfield and the North, National Health, all the Kraut stuff everybody knows (Can, Faust, Ash Ra, Amon Duul, Popol Vuh, Tangerine Dream/Cluster/Schulze...) as far as Big Names go. I agree with what's been said about contemporary artists, the only explicitly neo-prog thing that's ever landed with me is Morte Macabre Symphonic Holocaust and that's hardly modern. Even when done competently the reenactment element is stifling. 

I often get as much mileage out of the many (perhaps derivative, though often charmingly idiosyncratic/amatuer) obscurities who only made a few (or single) LPs before hanging it up. The sort of stuff reissued by Syn-phonic, Mellow, Musea, Shadocks, Long Hair, Soleil Zeuhl etc. Almost all this shit is on Youtube by now as well, one of the few technological conveniences of the last decade or so worth celebrating without reservation. 

There's too much to mention, idk how else to go about it other than a nondescript list broken up by extremely nerdy ProgArchives microgenres. This is pretty basic but maybe a few of my fellow autists will find something that tickles them. 

Eclectic: 
-Island Pictures
-Home The Alchemist
-Steamhammer Speech
-Yedza Urfa Boris

Folk Prog: 
-Can Am Des Puig Book of AM
-Broselmachine S/T
-Holderlin Traum
-Emtidi Saat
-Trees On the Shore
-Spirogyra Bells, Boots and Shambles
-Jan Dukes de Gray Sorcerers & Rats & Mice...

Heavy:
-T2 It'll All Work Out In Boomland
-Modulo 1000 Não Fale Com Paredes
-Steamhammer Speech

Jazz Fusion: 
-Secret Oyster (all 4 LPs)
-Love Cry Want S/T
-Fusion S/T

Kraut:
-Dom Edge of Time
-Paternoster S/T
-German Oak S/T
-Limbus 3/4

Progressive Electronic:
-Flamen Dialis Symptome Dei
-Albergo Intergalattico Spaziale S/T
-Didier Bocquet Eclipse

RPI: 
-Museo Rosenbach Zarathustra
-Il Balleto Di Bronzo Ys
-Biglietto Per L'Inferno S/T

Symphonic:
-Cathedral Stained Glass Stories
-Lift Caravan of Your Dreams
-Mirthrandir For You The Old Woman
-Spring S/T

Zeuhl:
-Potemkine Foetus
-Dun Eros
-Weidorje S/T
-Rialzu U Rigiru
-Archaia S/T

[adult human]

Steven Stapleton has of course mentioned this, and many of the Japanese innovators have also been very vocal about their love of prog/kraut rock etc. Noisextra even did an episode about the Tangerine Dream album Zeit because so many Japanese artists mentioned it as an influence. 

Yes, good point. The recent Hijokaidan book by David Kato Hopkins does a fantastic job of laying out the musical and cultural landscape prior to and at the time of the group's early foundation. So much of what happened in those days revolved around handfuls of individuals with shared interests in prog and krautrock but also the place/s they could go to hear and discuss that music with each other. Mikawa is particularly vocal in much of his writing or interviews about how big a deal it was for him during formative years. I agree with you that nobody should feel obliged to care about the crossover today but from a point of historical context I don't think the influence can be overstated so far as the Japanese scene goes.

Stapleton is an interesting comment too or perhaps more specifically the NWW list. By no means am I familiar with everything on there but many early and, in their day, totally under appreciated instances of real genre bending, mind blowingly experimental brilliance are well represented. I can only imagine what it must have been like to have been shaped musically by those kinds of records closer to when they came out, not to mention so long before the notion of being able to instantly recall all available information about them to a screen at the click of a button was a reality. Listening to something like Art Bears (as I am right now) and hearing how much sound design and studio experimenting is going on really shows you how deeply rooted that influence must surely be on yet another project which would be instrumental to the kind of things we're all making and enjoying today.

There are certainly a lot of other key players from important earlier scenes/projects who cite or display a prog influence. I'm absolutely certain it's in there for the Rupenus bros, particularly when you listen to some of the stuff going on during that Bladder Flask album. You can definitely imagine a straight lines from first hearing electronic and tape collaged sounds on LPs by Beatles, Zappa, Pink Floyd and whoever else and eventually deciding to make music entirely based on those ideas. Dylan Nyoukis has spoken before about how hearing Faust in his dad's record collection was the first time he realised non-musical sound could be used in the creation of music, for example. Similar must be the case for so many others.

[adult human]

Disappointing to hear, but that first LP came out at a time when I was so heavy into discovering a lot of prog stuff I’d ignored as I was too punk and it was just such a breath of fresh air. I’m listening to the LP now and still sounds good to me. I recall not liking the second LP as much and I see they have a few more LPs out. I may have to see if they’re on Tidal….

Oh, I should temper my comments a bit there. Any shitty vibes I got from them as people were so utterly in passing and based on so little that it shouldn't really count as anything beyond a petty, local observation. I haven't heard anything past that first album and should perhaps check. I can definitely see how a record like that might be a way in to this kind of music and I'd hesitate to say it was a 'bad album'...probably more just that I can't see myself searching for anything in it these days that I wouldn't find done better elsewhere.

[T.D.]

the darker stuff like Van der Graaf Generator

VDGG are still a bit 'to do' for me. My dad loves them and would play Pawn Hearts often and even got me a cd copy of it when I was a teenager which I still have and listen to quite a bit. But beyond that I don't think I have ever meaningfully listened to anything. My friend just recently saw them live and said that they were quite loose and sloppy at times - pushing themselves to play songs that little bit more complex and tight than they are consistently capable of, especially given their ages now. I actually quite like this idea - that a band isn't guaranteed to nail it every time live despite the decades those tunes have been in existence. Makes me feel better about myself, anyway.

I like VdGG a lot but understand why they wound't appeal to everyone. Weird instrumentation and Peter Hammill's voice is an acquired taste. Pawn Hearts is sick but Godbluff is always my go to. Think that's where everything comes together and the band totally locks in, hard as a diamond. I tend to like Peter Hammill solo as much if not more. In Camera is a very strange and singular record that features some of his best and darkest songs, along with the lengthy musique concrete piece "Magog" to close it all out. It was recorded mostly on 4 track while his brother was in a coma and there's a desperate air or isolation that sets it apart. A lot of people rate Nadir's Big Chance, bit of an outlier as it was his reaction to punk (Pete's Street Hassle or Sabotage/Live?) but it does have its moments. His 80s records are far better than his contemporaries, particularly Enter K which is as good as anything he's done. I'd love to see a stumbling version of present day VdGG. Perhaps it could approximate the experience of viewing this?: 

Steven Stapleton has of course mentioned this, and many of the Japanese innovators have also been very vocal about their love of prog/kraut rock etc. Noisextra even did an episode about the Tangerine Dream album Zeit because so many Japanese artists mentioned it as an influence.

Yes, good point. The recent Hijokaidan book by David Kato Hopkins does a fantastic job of laying out the musical and cultural landscape prior to and at the time of the group's early foundation. So much of what happened in those days revolved around handfuls of individuals with shared interests in prog and krautrock but also the place/s they could go to hear and discuss that music with each other. Mikawa is particularly vocal in much of his writing or interviews about how big a deal it was for him during formative years. I agree with you that nobody should feel obliged to care about the crossover today but from a point of historical context I don't think the influence can be overstated so far as the Japanese scene goes.

Yes, with Hijo it's hard to miss (the early sleeve art, covers of "It's a Rainy Day" and "Silver Machine" etc.). You can't post pictures on this part of the board but there's a great shot of Mikawa in the Incapcitants documentary saying "I also like progressive rock, but I can't play it." I've not picked up the Hopkins book yet, thanks for the reminder. I'm not sure where I heard it, maybe the "Story of Hijokaidan" thing translated by Alan Cummings, but Jojo mentions that Hawkwind were the "perfect band" to him and how upset he was after their first performance as Corroded Marie because they were supposed to play space rock and it ended up being the sort of manic free noise we know and love from them. There's also the pre-Hijo Rasenkaidan (archival CD on Alchemy) who were said to be an ode to Slap Happy. The fact that neither band sounds remotely close to their influences of course adds to the fun. The psychedelic/prog undercurrent is obviously noticeable in C.C.C.C., Masonna and many others as well. 

Stapleton is an interesting comment too or perhaps more specifically the NWW list. By no means am I familiar with everything on there but many early and, in their day, totally under appreciated instances of real genre bending, mind blowingly experimental brilliance are well represented. I can only imagine what it must have been like to have been shaped musically by those kinds of records closer to when they came out, not to mention so long before the notion of being able to instantly recall all available information about them to a screen at the click of a button was a reality. Listening to something like Art Bears (as I am right now) and hearing how much sound design and studio experimenting is going on really shows you how deeply rooted that influence must surely be on yet another project which would be instrumental to the kind of things we're all making and enjoying today.

There are certainly a lot of other key players from important earlier scenes/projects who cite or display a prog influence. I'm absolutely certain it's in there for the Rupenus bros, particularly when you listen to some of the stuff going on during that Bladder Flask album. You can definitely imagine a straight lines from first hearing electronic and tape collaged sounds on LPs by Beatles, Zappa, Pink Floyd and whoever else and eventually deciding to make music entirely based on those ideas. Dylan Nyoukis has spoken before about how hearing Faust in his dad's record collection was the first time he realised non-musical sound could be used in the creation of music, for example. Similar must be the case for so many others.

Ahh, the hallowed List, definitely one of the things that fucked me for life when I first discovered it via rare record download blogs of the-late 00s. As you say, not as relevant given the now instant access to everything, but pre-Internet it was obviously a sign post for out sounds. It's importance is sometimes overstated though I think; still see reissues come out with "NWW List item!" on the hype sticker as if it's a trademark of quality (there's some real clunkers on there, as even Stapleton would agree), and there's a great ad in a later Bananafish (might be Choc Monk related?) with something along the lines of "stop listening to records from the NWW list and think for yourself sheep!" that always cracks me up. Still, crazy that three people were able to find all this stuff in the late 70s, and how it sort of makes sense smashed together. I guess if you had an open mind and just bought anything that looked strange these records were dirt cheap at the time (think it's the Audion interview where Stapleton and the Freeman bros are reminiscing about boxes of the Don Bradshaw-Leather 2xLP sitting in the basement of a London-area store for years, couldn't give this stuff away, same story for lots of now mega rare private prog/psych and many other genres). 

This comment from Dylan is exactly what I was getting at, noticing these weird segments buried among songs and figuring why not make that the whole thing? Although the zaniness factor is too great for me to overcome (I get why people liked him BITD though) Zappa is another major touchstone to all of this. As you say, Bladder Flask surely fit the bill and were apparently instrumental towards the shift of NWW to a Stapleton solo vehicle starting with Homotopy to Marie. Can't forget the NWW-related Hastings of Malawi either, one of the best from this era. 

I love the weird Swedish stuff like Trad Gras Och Stenar and International Harvester.

I'm a fan of a lot of the Swedish (or Scandinavian generally) stuff as well, which could almost be its own subgenre. Most Bo Anders Persson related things (some which pre-date prog) like you mentioned, Algarnas Tradgard, Elonkorjuu (Finland), Culpeper's Orchard (Denmark) and especially the two LPs from the Danish hippie commune project Furekaaben. Probably too loose, druggy and incompetent to be considered prog but they hit some kinda proto-DIY spot that I always appreciate.

[holy ghost]

I like VdGG a lot but understand why they wound't appeal to everyone. Weird instrumentation and Peter Hammill's voice is an acquired taste. Pawn Hearts is sick but Godbluff is always my go to. Think that's where everything comes together and the band totally locks in, hard as a diamond.

Godbluff is fantastic - totally hard agree on that being a peak for them. I am most partial to H To He overall as I remember hearing “Killer” for the first time and just for sure knowing this was a band for me. I also spent a ton of time with “The Least We Can Do” this past year in my car, in particular the track “Refugees” is just a total sick track but the whole album on its own is 100% consistent.

Another album I went absolutely nuts for this past year was Wishbone Ash “IV”. Of course everyone knows Argus as a total monster twin guitar powerhouse but “IV” is just as solid and the songwriting is just great. A little less wild I’m the solo department. “There’s The Rub” is really solid too.

I’ve also been super basic lately and listening to a lot of Uriah Heep - it would be sort of a stretch to call them a prog band but they write some pretty good rockin’ tunes. This is summer BBQ prog for me, not too complex and my wife won’t give me that side eyed “wtf is this” look.

One I really dig is a guy named Robert Connolly - he made one LP in the late 70’s called “Plateau”. Very much Yes influenced, dude is a Hamilton local that I’m hoping to cross paths with someday. It’s pretty good. Not mind blowing but a really interesting LP.

Really getting into Bruford and UK a lot. Allan Holdsworth is a fucking nut.

I really got into Hungarian prog a few years after visiting. They had some really interesting acts that if you’re in Europe it shouldn’t be too hard to track down.

Solaris – Marsbéli Krónikák = The Martian Chronicles (heavy symphonic)

Skorpio – A Rohanás (funky rockin’ good time stuff)

East - Játékok

Omega – Omega 8: Csillagok Útján (check out this cover where they’re dressed like fuckin’ ABBA)

SBB – Ze Słowem Biegnę Do Ciebie (Polish, very cool Floyd influenced)


^ lots of records I’m not too familiar with in this thread and I plan on checking out as well.

[holy ghost]

Peter Hammill solo

Forgot to mention in my last post - I have The Silent Corner LP but I haven’t delved as deep into solo Hammill as I have VDGG - I threw on In Camera just now and really digging it. I think I’ll have to make this my next deep dive.

Speaking of solo records, Chris Squire’s solo LP is almost on par with any of the classic Yes records.

Also worth mentioning (not prog rock per say) but Fripp & Eno’s ambient LPs are absolutely top tier. I’d put No Pussyfooting as hugely inspirational for me.

[T.D.]

Glad to hear In Camera is hitting the spot. I like most of his early solo LPs but that one is really on another level. H to He... and Least We Can Do... get lots of plays around here too, as well as their debut from '69, although it's in much more of a late psychedelic/art rock style and has little in common with what came after.

Definitely love the Fripp & Eno stuff together and think they fit in well enough here. No Pussyfooting and Evening Star are equally brilliant in my mind, as well as the Air Structures 2xLP on the Impossible Recordworks bootleg label. Not really prog at all but the LP Eno did with the eccentric early Crimson lyricist Pete Sinfield is a bizarre listen worth tracking down (could use a reissue actually). His solo record Still is another favorite that strikes a good balance btw solid songwriting, ill-advised stabs at funky blues rock and stoned, star gazing balladry.

I dig Argus a lot but have never bothered with any other Wishbone Ash, so we'll have to check out IV soon (Round the Edges by the British band Dark hits a nice crude approximation of the twin guitar sound). Likewise with Uriah Heep, who I've nothing against but have never gotten around to (recommendations for where to jump in welcome). I certainly don't need all my prog listening to be super complex and technical...usually turn to the first two UFOs, Sweet Slag or a lot of John Peel's short live Dandelion label (Tractor, Stack Waddy, Kevin Coyne etc.) for less flowery stuff.

Thanks for those Hugarian recs, will have to look into them. There's a lot of really cool central/Eastern Euro material that I've only scratched the surface with. Collegium Musicum from Slovakia have some good ELP/The Nice indebted material, especially Konvergencie.

[adult human]

Any love for Samla Mammas Manna and related bands here? I only have Familjesprickor which is pretty great and feel I should get more. I do sometimes tire of their whole 'carnival music' thing and a few of the organ/synth timbres they frequently use grate. Nonetheless they have long felt like a band I ought to properly explore and eventually collect a lot of albums from. Would love to hear of any good places to go next. In the meantime lets enjoy this TV appearance they did as Von Zamla and lament how none of us grew up in a world where you could perhaps catch things like this on television: https://youtu.be/pTVrfQPGPA4

While we're at it let's also nip back to VdGG and take in this wonderful rendition of 'Plague of Lighthouse Keepers'. I remember having to watch this every weekend for about 2 months when my dad discovered it on DVD some years ago https://youtu.be/N-TXKdoi8WQ

On Hamill solo that's another 'to do' for me too but again, my dad has always been pretty big into that stuff so chances are I've heard quite a bit. There was a time I was trying to get my dad into Stockhausen and sent him Gesang Der Junglinge to which he responded by sending me a track from Blackbox which sounded nothing like it but was great. Lots of odd stuttering, chopped up vocals. It made me think I should delve into the whole album sometime but I've yet to do so.

RE: Zappa, I hear it from a lot of people that they can't handle the full package of what it/he was and I totally get it. I think I'm perhaps lucky that I've got a high threshold and tolerance for it because there is undoubtedly just a continent of throwaway, jokey trash out there under his name but I'll sit through it all for the sake of the bits that are good. I also really like many eras, not just Mothers or Hot Rats or whatever. I can definitely dig things from all across the board. If there are other FZ fans lurking I'm game to hear of anything you think is good, knowing that often it'll only be a single track within a whole album.

Finally, and I guess on topic, I will mention Hermann Szobel. This is really killer instrumental fusion with FZ influences that are heavy and discernible but not overbearing to those who aren't fans. The story goes that Szobel cut this LP as a 19 year old piano prodigy having composed everything himself. After that he went missing and up until only 10 years ago was presumed to be homeless and mentally unwell. Sad stuff considering the talent and vision evident from this record. The whole album is brilliant but this opener is something that ends up in every single mix, DJ set or youtube roulette session I ever do. Absolutely unbelievable. https://youtu.be/ZR43Wz6hQoM