Dislikes and turnoffs

Primary noise discussion.
Jeep
Blank Tape
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:00 am

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by Jeep »

Based only in my personal opinion, without saying it is good or bad, right or wrong, what I really don’t like in harsh noise are:
1) funny noises coming from circuit bent toys and other “instruments”: definitely is not my thing, in my opinion it’s just sounds lame and stupid;
2) noise with dance and techno beats: beats like that just ruins everything. There is no problem with a little bit of rhythm in a noise track, but beats used in “wrong way” in noise just looks like a poor executed music for radio and clubs;
3) harsh noise with intermissions of calm or ambient music: it’s like a cliché, specially in cut-up noise. I don’t see any problem with a little calm music as a introduction of a track or performance, but using it in intervals of a harsh track just “kills the mod”, in my point of view;
4) noise heads looking down for performers with a laptop: it really piss me off when somebody criticizes laptop in noise arguing that pedal noise and synth noise are better. I don’t fucking care about the tools, for me only the sounds matters. If it’s powerful and well made, i am into it. I see many acts with a table full of pedals and gear, monkeying around like crazy, but the sounds are just boring and lame. In the other hand, I see laptopers siting still in a chair that just deliver a devastating and amazing sound. Noise is power, the tools are irrelevant. I also can’t understand why for some people is ok a performer use something like the sp404 sampler, but it’s not acceptable a performer use a laptop running ableton live. I really can’t see a difference between pushing a pad and clicking a mouse. Besides there is many amazing midi controllers to use with computers;
5) I also don’t like noise with real drums: I have nothing to say about that, just that does not fit in my taste.
User avatar
33033
Maniacs Only
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:16 am
Contact:

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by 33033 »

Jeep wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 3:43 pm
4) noise heads looking down for performers with a laptop: it really piss me off when somebody criticizes laptop in noise arguing that pedal noise and synth noise are better. I don’t fucking care about the tools, for me only the sounds matters. If it’s powerful and well made, i am into it. I see many acts with a table full of pedals and gear, monkeying around like crazy, but the sounds are just boring and lame. In the other hand, I see laptopers siting still in a chair that just deliver a devastating and amazing sound. Noise is power, the tools are irrelevant. I also can’t understand why for some people is ok a performer use something like the sp404 sampler, but it’s not acceptable a performer use a laptop running ableton live. I really can’t see a difference between pushing a pad and clicking a mouse. Besides there is many amazing midi controllers to use with computers;
It's like anything, noise made with laptops/computers can be good, but it can also be bad. Noise with pedals and mixers can be good but it can also be bad. Totally agree with you.
adult human
Thrashmaster
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:01 am

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by adult human »

Jeep wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 3:43 pm 4) noise heads looking down for performers with a laptop
I sort of feel as though this prejudice has changed a lot between now and when I first became aware of it. I wonder if the ubiquity/relative affordability of laptops and software has changed a lot about how laptops can be used for noise and thus how often or why they are the subject of criticism. I could be wrong but I recall early incarnations of the anti-laptop thing being based around the idea of the computer as sole producer and manipulator of the sounds, which would often be described as overly digital, sterile and flat. Those are terms that would certainly still be used now to describe a certain kind of (crappy) noise making but I reckon the most common uses of a laptop in noise recording/performance have moved on a bit from then and I notice the stigma less. It's now so much easier to integrate a computer into a portable setup, they don't really require specialised knowledge to use with lots of modern iterations of software and there are now immeasurably higher numbers of people using them for pretty much everything in life than was the case in the early 2000s when I'd have first been hearing people talk about the distinction. I don't know, these are disorganised and spitballing thoughts but I do think something has changed and largely for the better if all we're talking about is the reduction of what was always a fairly ignorant position. In any case most people don't know what they're fucking talking about when it comes to the whole digital vs analogue argument.
User avatar
_TS_
C20
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:23 pm

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by _TS_ »

adult human wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 5:48 pm
Jeep wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 3:43 pm 4) noise heads looking down for performers with a laptop
I sort of feel as though this prejudice has changed a lot between now and when I first became aware of it. I wonder if the ubiquity/relative affordability of laptops and software has changed a lot about how laptops can be used for noise and thus how often or why they are the subject of criticism. I could be wrong but I recall early incarnations of the anti-laptop thing being based around the idea of the computer as sole producer and manipulator of the sounds, which would often be described as overly digital, sterile and flat. Those are terms that would certainly still be used now to describe a certain kind of (crappy) noise making but I reckon the most common uses of a laptop in noise recording/performance have moved on a bit from then and I notice the stigma less. It's now so much easier to integrate a computer into a portable setup, they don't really require specialised knowledge to use with lots of modern iterations of software and there are now immeasurably higher numbers of people using them for pretty much everything in life than was the case in the early 2000s when I'd have first been hearing people talk about the distinction. I don't know, these are disorganised and spitballing thoughts but I do think something has changed and largely for the better if all we're talking about is the reduction of what was always a fairly ignorant position. In any case most people don't know what they're fucking talking about when it comes to the whole digital vs analogue argument.
Agreed on most points, however, I think its more entertaining to watch knob twisting than laptop-diddling. There was a time when every noise show I went to was just a dude relaxing behind a laptop, and it's hard to escape the feeling that maybe, just maybe he's just playing a game or reading the news and letting wavs roll. In terms of audio, there's too much superstition around the whole analogue/digital schism, using a laptop is not gonna ruin your sound. I still think there's a difference from a visual standpoint though. It's fun to be able to see what the performer is doing, if it's just a laptop and nothing else, in my opinion, that's gonna be boring to look at.
To og to, det ene mot det andre: inn i denne strid fødes vi, med spiren til død i oss...

Forflatning - https://cloisterrecordingsus.bandcamp.c ... orflatning
Kropper Uten Mellomrom - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1Z39KUtxC0
User avatar
chryptusrecords
Hard Panning
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:56 pm

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by chryptusrecords »

i saw pain jerk play once and he used a laptop AND had 4/4 beats it was really shit and disappointing
adult human
Thrashmaster
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:01 am

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by adult human »

_TS_ wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 9:25 am
adult human wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 5:48 pm
Jeep wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 3:43 pm 4) noise heads looking down for performers with a laptop
I sort of feel as though this prejudice has changed a lot between now and when I first became aware of it. I wonder if the ubiquity/relative affordability of laptops and software has changed a lot about how laptops can be used for noise and thus how often or why they are the subject of criticism. I could be wrong but I recall early incarnations of the anti-laptop thing being based around the idea of the computer as sole producer and manipulator of the sounds, which would often be described as overly digital, sterile and flat. Those are terms that would certainly still be used now to describe a certain kind of (crappy) noise making but I reckon the most common uses of a laptop in noise recording/performance have moved on a bit from then and I notice the stigma less. It's now so much easier to integrate a computer into a portable setup, they don't really require specialised knowledge to use with lots of modern iterations of software and there are now immeasurably higher numbers of people using them for pretty much everything in life than was the case in the early 2000s when I'd have first been hearing people talk about the distinction. I don't know, these are disorganised and spitballing thoughts but I do think something has changed and largely for the better if all we're talking about is the reduction of what was always a fairly ignorant position. In any case most people don't know what they're fucking talking about when it comes to the whole digital vs analogue argument.
Agreed on most points, however, I think its more entertaining to watch knob twisting than laptop-diddling. There was a time when every noise show I went to was just a dude relaxing behind a laptop, and it's hard to escape the feeling that maybe, just maybe he's just playing a game or reading the news and letting wavs roll. In terms of audio, there's too much superstition around the whole analogue/digital schism, using a laptop is not gonna ruin your sound. I still think there's a difference from a visual standpoint though. It's fun to be able to see what the performer is doing, if it's just a laptop and nothing else, in my opinion, that's gonna be boring to look at.
I don't know that I connect with the importance of feeling as though someone is 'doing something' when they're sat or stood by a table at the same time as sounds are playing rather than letting the wavs roll. I've definitely seen enough sets where very little is going on besides channels on a mixer being balanced or even single tape players doing most of the work but because we see a table full of the devices it feels more legit than if it were a laptop. I've also seen enough performances from people so visibly lacking in understanding or control of their table of pedals, synths or even just basic signal path into the mixer that they may as well have been miming. In fact, a table full of 'analogue' gear usually prepares me for a dissatisfying experience more readily than when I see very little. I used to use 2 tape players and 2 ipods combined with a looper to do sets then switched to a laptop and 4 track for a while. I got a few comments about my apparent 'move to digital' when really nothing was taking place on the laptop that wasn't happening with the ipods. These are all funny and interesting observations about how we still attach quite traditional notions of process or skill even to entirely abstract non-musical music performance. Still, I should add that my views on the importance of all that stuff are at this point a matter of pure taste and preference rather than anything I'd argue 'ought' to be happening or not. I definitely understand why someone would prefer the things you're talking about regardless of whether it matches my own view. I'm sure at one stage I'll have felt similarly about seeing laptop sets and my view has just shifted over a long time.
Joie de la Blumpy
Thrashmaster
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:14 am

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by Joie de la Blumpy »

An (un)interesting side argument might consider why or how the craptop is so frequently framed in the live context, as though it were the be all and end all (not going to argue for nor against). I mean, what percentage of your noise listening is live? Is one then to be devalued?
adult human
Thrashmaster
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:01 am

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by adult human »

Joie de la Blumpy wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:51 am An (un)interesting side argument might consider why or how the craptop is so frequently framed in the live context, as though it were the be all and end all (not going to argue for nor against). I mean, what percentage of your noise listening is live? Is one then to be devalued?
Interesting point. Besides some critique of Merzbow's digital era (which was a pretty explicit statement on his behalf as much as anyone else) I don't know if can recall any of the anti laptop barbs being directed to anything put down on record.
User avatar
_TS_
C20
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:23 pm

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by _TS_ »

adult human wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 11:54 am
I don't know that I connect with the importance of feeling as though someone is 'doing something' when they're sat or stood by a table at the same time as sounds are playing rather than letting the wavs roll. I've definitely seen enough sets where very little is going on besides channels on a mixer being balanced or even single tape players doing most of the work but because we see a table full of the devices it feels more legit than if it were a laptop. I've also seen enough performances from people so visibly lacking in understanding or control of their table of pedals, synths or even just basic signal path into the mixer that they may as well have been miming. In fact, a table full of 'analogue' gear usually prepares me for a dissatisfying experience more readily than when I see very little. I used to use 2 tape players and 2 ipods combined with a looper to do sets then switched to a laptop and 4 track for a while. I got a few comments about my apparent 'move to digital' when really nothing was taking place on the laptop that wasn't happening with the ipods. These are all funny and interesting observations about how we still attach quite traditional notions of process or skill even to entirely abstract non-musical music performance. Still, I should add that my views on the importance of all that stuff are at this point a matter of pure taste and preference rather than anything I'd argue 'ought' to be happening or not. I definitely understand why someone would prefer the things you're talking about regardless of whether it matches my own view. I'm sure at one stage I'll have felt similarly about seeing laptop sets and my view has just shifted over a long time.
Pure taste absolutely, agreed. Not saying anyone should stop using laptops because it's not "legit" or digital, not really trying to diss anyone who uses laptops either, I just don't think it is entirely inconsequential, it adds or removes something from the experience.. Usually, my experience is that its less fun. The point you are making about "traditional notions of process or skill" is an interesting one, in my view, it doesn't resonate that because something is "abstract" means that its more disconnected from craftmanship. I think it's fun to watch people manipulate gear, and think about how they are achieving their sound. Being a gear fetishist doesn't exactly make me more objective on this topic either, hah! I love that shit! Isn't it also sometimes more fun to watch someone panicking over their gear, than being absolute badasses at moving the mouse cursor?

On Joie de la Blumpys point: I think the anti-laptop virulence can be seen in relation to the digital/analogue thing. I've definitively heard people who are suspicious of music that's edited in DAWS for fear of it sounding "digital".
To og to, det ene mot det andre: inn i denne strid fødes vi, med spiren til død i oss...

Forflatning - https://cloisterrecordingsus.bandcamp.c ... orflatning
Kropper Uten Mellomrom - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1Z39KUtxC0
Jeep
Blank Tape
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:00 am

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by Jeep »

Digital vs analogue, to me, doesn’t say much in the discussion laptop vs hardware gear. The most samplers, a sp404 for example, are completely digital, many modules in eurorack are also totally digital, the same applies to some synths and pedals used often in noise concerts. For the performance, there is always nice midi controllers for software with lots of knobs to twist, faders, joysticks and other controllers do move around (check it out Author and Punish and Jeff Carey, for example). I think all it’s about personal taste. If the sounds are powerful, loud and interesting I don’t give a fuck if it’s coming from a guy sitting with a laptop staring the screen.
+hp+
Hard Panning
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2022 1:08 pm

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by +hp+ »

Vast Field Magnetism wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 9:41 am
+hp+ wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:45 pm i hate it when performers sit down for their set like they are at the dinner table or typing a school paper
its like you can't be arsed to stand for eight minutes, come on
Dilloway would like to have a word with you:

https://youtu.be/PYD4szcNGEA

seeing dilloway is what made me start whining about these SITTERS

i honestly didnt think this was gonna be such a touchy subject
should have just whined about mikko

i dont care how many subpop or aryan asshole releases u got under your belt
sitting is for COPS

"If you don't Stand or Something you will Sit for Anything"
-Alexander Hamilton
User avatar
Capers
Hard Panning
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:35 am

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by Capers »

This is very much a case to case thing for me. A person behing a screen can look both boring and great. The bad examples are easy, but I remember a good one. I think it was 2012, at a noise festival in a barn in rural south Sweden. The guy wore a roomy colorful 80's track suit jacket + shades (though the room was dark except for the small stage), and was sitting hunched behind a table. A few pedals and a big shiny seemingly brand new iPad on a neat little stand, with the apple glowing towards the audience. Fucking perfect. It was average HNW as far as I remember, so perhaps not life-elevating to hear, but to LOOK AT, definitely not boring. He looked like a poker player from some mob movie.
adult human
Thrashmaster
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:01 am

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by adult human »

+hp+ wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 3:41 pm
Vast Field Magnetism wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 9:41 am
+hp+ wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:45 pm i hate it when performers sit down for their set like they are at the dinner table or typing a school paper
its like you can't be arsed to stand for eight minutes, come on
Dilloway would like to have a word with you:

https://youtu.be/PYD4szcNGEA

seeing dilloway is what made me start whining about these SITTERS

i honestly didnt think this was gonna be such a touchy subject
should have just whined about mikko

i dont care how many subpop or aryan asshole releases u got under your belt
sitting is for COPS

"If you don't Stand or Something you will Sit for Anything"
-Alexander Hamilton
Nah dude, this is great. Exactly the kind of nonsensical problem the noise scene/this forum needs. I'm not even joking. I want to hear about more of your gripes if you'd be so kind.
User avatar
New Forces
C20
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:02 pm

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by New Forces »

Putting more than 2-3 local projects on the show as openers for a tour. Bonus points if literally every local project is put on the gig as an opener and there's like 12 acts on the flyer.

"We didn't get any money at the door because everyone here is performing"
New Forces
https://newforces.bigcartel.com

Kjostad
Breaking The Will
Form Hunter
Cryocene
User avatar
Scream & Writhe
Site Admin
Posts: 341
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:25 pm
Location: Montreal, QC
Contact:

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by Scream & Writhe »

New Forces wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 4:09 pm Bonus points if literally every local project is put on the gig as an opener and there's like 12 acts on the flyer.
I don't understand who on this earth wants shows with endless lineups, but it seems to be a consistent thing across many genres and has been for... as long as I can remember and it's always killed me. Cap a noise show at 5-6 acts, tops, and a "real" band show never needs to be more than 4, for the love of god. Even as a relatively enthusiastic youth I always found this to be super draining.
Scream & Writhe distro and Absurd Exposition label
Montreal, QC
https://www.screamandwrithe.com

Primitive Isolation Tactics
User avatar
Namahs
Maniacs Only
Posts: 218
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:20 am

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by Namahs »

Scream & Writhe wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 7:06 pm
New Forces wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 4:09 pm Bonus points if literally every local project is put on the gig as an opener and there's like 12 acts on the flyer.
I don't understand who on this earth wants shows with endless lineups, but it seems to be a consistent thing across many genres and has been for... as long as I can remember and it's always killed me. Cap a noise show at 5-6 acts, tops, and a "real" band show never needs to be more than 4, for the love of god. Even as a relatively enthusiastic youth I always found this to be super draining.
This. Seen too many of these. One of my "favorites": Gig at a sports bar. 5 opening bands do their set and go overtime. After the fifth one someone said "oh theres a hockey game going on!" and the show went for a pause around 1.5 hours or something. Then the main band gets to hit the stage. Almost whole crowd had fucked off and rest who stayed were so drunk they were just passing out.
Ineffable Slime
Hard Panning
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:25 pm

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by Ineffable Slime »

haha, I think there can be some mitigating factors on a lot of locals on a show (ex. a noisecore band that takes 5 minutes to set up an plays 7 minutes) but the WORST is when a local band takes 20+ minutes to get their gear set up. I played a show in Dec where one of the acts set up for 20, plays for 30, breaks down for 20, with 2 more acts to go. Queue everyone leaving because they thought the show wrapped up as a dude is slowly wrapping approx 200 cables up at a pretty languid pace.

but yea 5 is a good number...I get wanting to be on a bill with someone you respect, but don't perform at the detriment of the whole event.
User avatar
thedemonfeedback666
C20
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:24 am

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by thedemonfeedback666 »

Too much reverb
User avatar
Namahs
Maniacs Only
Posts: 218
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:20 am

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by Namahs »

Ineffable Slime wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 10:56 am haha, I think there can be some mitigating factors on a lot of locals on a show (ex. a noisecore band that takes 5 minutes to set up an plays 7 minutes) but the WORST is when a local band takes 20+ minutes to get their gear set up. I played a show in Dec where one of the acts set up for 20, plays for 30, breaks down for 20, with 2 more acts to go. Queue everyone leaving because they thought the show wrapped up as a dude is slowly wrapping approx 200 cables up at a pretty languid pace.

but yea 5 is a good number...I get wanting to be on a bill with someone you respect, but don't perform at the detriment of the whole event.
Couple years ago we had a opening band who took forever to setup. They brought all of their own gear instead borrowing. Played overtime and came back for a fucking encore! Then they just fucked off into the audience and chat with friends instead of taking gear down.
Last edited by Namahs on Tue Mar 29, 2022 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
33033
Maniacs Only
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:16 am
Contact:

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by 33033 »

FedEx
Canada Post prices (the mailfolk are amazing though)
User avatar
Touch Starved
Contact Mic
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:59 am
Contact:

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by Touch Starved »

Jeep wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 3:43 pm 1) funny noises coming from circuit bent toys and other “instruments”: definitely is not my thing, in my opinion it’s just sounds lame and stupid
Haha yess!! Does anyone really enjoy those goofy ass bleeps and bloops?
Crimesofthecrown777
Contact Mic
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:03 pm

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by Crimesofthecrown777 »

Alright lets have some fun:

- Can't stand local "kings/queens" that just want to be on top on the local scene but have no desire to tour out or grow. They are mainly there for the social aspect.
- Can't stand fools that insist you need to respect "elders" in the scene, particularly if you are someone that is surpassing them or playing at their level.
- Can't stand sliding door or no one turned away from funds shit. Fuck that shit forever.
- Can't stand fools bitching about not getting attention when they are too stupid to realize its not just the sound, but its the overall presentation of the project even down to and including the person.
- Can't stand a fucking faker who talked shit on my work but now wants to work with me because of where I'm at now.
Last edited by Crimesofthecrown777 on Wed May 18, 2022 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Vast Field Magnetism
C20
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:51 pm

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by Vast Field Magnetism »

Crimesofthecrown777 wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 1:39 pm - Can't stand fools bitching about not getting attention when they are too stupid to realize its not just the sound, but its the overall presentation of the project even down to and including the person.
This is the one right here.
User avatar
SS1535
Maniacs Only
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:38 pm

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by SS1535 »

"Batches"
User avatar
Scream & Writhe
Site Admin
Posts: 341
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:25 pm
Location: Montreal, QC
Contact:

Re: Dislikes and turnoffs

Post by Scream & Writhe »

SS1535 wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 4:57 pm "Batches"
When international shipping rates often prohibit single-tape orders (i.e. ordering 1 tape costs the same as ordering 2-5, or more), batching is the logical answer.
Scream & Writhe distro and Absurd Exposition label
Montreal, QC
https://www.screamandwrithe.com

Primitive Isolation Tactics
Post Reply