(Potentially) "Problematic" Lyrics/Themes in Noise Music

[Remi]

May I suggest the last Con-Dom album as fairly brutal in a non-provocative-yet-shoving-reality-in-your-face way? It resonates with me even harder lately as a massive scandal erupted in France a few weeks regarding institutional maltreatment of elderly people in retirement homes.

And on the other end of the spectrum there's that promo video for the new BU album and it's the most embarassing thing ever.

[Joie de la Blumpy]

May I suggest the last Con-Dom album as fairly brutal in a non-provocative-yet-shoving-reality-in-your-face way? It resonates with me even harder lately as a massive scandal erupted in France a few weeks regarding institutional maltreatment of elderly people in retirement homes.

Was half tempted to namecheck the above but held back cause I thought it'd be too obvious. As far as scandals and institutional treatment of the elderly, the scandal to me is that such information might still be regarded as scandalous. Look at the published stats, around the world, going back... forever. Or better yet, don't. Stick to art.

[chryptusrecords]

Are there good examples of noise/PE projects that are particularly provocative/controversial/uncomfortable precisely because the questionable content is decidedly not "extreme," so audiences are denied an easy decision to condemn, or ignore, or hide it? And I don't mean the politically ambiguous, "but where do they really stand" kind of stuff, I mean projects where the ideas expressed are clear, consistent, and genuine, but just close enough to the line between "problematic" and "not problematic" that a lot of people are going to have to think about it.

yeah is this basically all power electronics and harsh noise that doesn't have any explicitly racist symbols on it?? the ideas are "clear," the rejection of conventional musicality and so on, but it's "uncomfortable" for any normal audience. whereas "noise people" will not be bothered at all. does atrax morgue fit this criteria? in principle yes, in practice no, because noise people are not "uncomfortable" with corbelli's work, they just enjoy it. what could possibly be "controversial" without being "extreme"? is it "controversial" to release a hundred identical harsh noise wall recordings?

edit: what i'm getting at is these qualities aren't contained in the music or the artist at all, it's depends entirely on the audience. for noise people, i think it would be pretty provocative to put out a tape full of joe biden samples about how the democratic party is really cool and good. but would that be good art? would it be worth doing?

edit 2: remember the band "neckbeard deathcamp"? that was pretty controversial without being objectionable or "problematic" or whatever. the problem is it's a cheap fucking gimmick

[W.K.]

May I suggest the last Con-Dom album as fairly brutal in a non-provocative-yet-shoving-reality-in-your-face way? It resonates with me even harder lately as a massive scandal erupted in France a few weeks regarding institutional maltreatment of elderly people in retirement homes.

I thought it was a very boring concept, yet I do applaud him for being honest with his emotions and delivering something different.

[Joie de la Blumpy]

boring

Going in circles here. I approve!

Maybe I could have reframed my earlier utterance as erm lemme see somethin like...art potentially repping the line between the banal and [fill in the cavity]*.

* preferably not with another synonym for "boring" but hey don't let me hold you back!

[Greg]

How far removed is the scene from "How "Artist X" perpetuates anti-[insert cause/concern here] with his release from 15 years ago, and still continues to not apologize for it" in some dumb publication. Not too far I'd imagine. Don't like? Don't listen/look/feel/touch/taste/fuck my friend. "Problematic" is a terrible word and I hope no self-respecting grown man uses it in daily conversation.

[D345]

How far removed is the scene from "How "Artist X" perpetuates anti-[insert cause/concern here] with his release from 15 years ago, and still continues to not apologize for it" in some dumb publication. Not too far I'd imagine. Don't like? Don't listen/look/feel/touch/taste/fuck my friend. "Problematic" is a terrible word and I hope no self-respecting grown man uses it in daily conversation.

While I was reading your post, this started to play in my head. Probably not going to get rid of this earworm anytime soon.
https://youtu.be/e80qhyovOnA

[chryptusrecords]

Genocide Organ - BCCI-ICI & Fab (from '4th World: Vital Comments On Recent Conspiracy Practices' compilation, Zaetraom 2015)


Mark Lombardi - BCCI-ICI & Fab 1972-91 (4th Version), 1996–2000


"For all of its graphic austerity, the subject of BCCI, ICIC & FAB is scandal. The drawing concerns, in part, a money-laundering operation of the 1980s involving an Arab bank headquartered in London. Here, as in his other drawings, Lombardi’s ethereal, web-like drawing diagrams patterns of collusion between corporate and governmental bodies, organized crime, and other illicit organizations. As described by Lombardi himself, BCCI “was used not only by drug dealers and con men but also by the governments of the U.S., U.K., Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Arab states to funnel support to Afghan guerrillas fighting Soviet occupation, to pay off friends and adversaries alike and conduct secret arms sales to Iran.” After researching this nexus of spurious affiliation in the public record, Lombardi began the drawing as a series of rough pencil sketches before proceeding to a larger, more precise version. Circles on the drawing identify the scheme’s main participants, while linear notations indicate their often dubious connections."
https://whitney.org/collection/works/12916

"In addition to violations of lending laws, BCCI was also accused of opening accounts or laundering money for figures such as Saddam Hussein, Manuel Noriega, Hussain Muhammad Ershad, and Samuel Doe, and for criminal organizations such as the Medellin Cartel and Abu Nidal [...] William von Raab, a former U.S. Commissioner of Customs, also told the Kerry Committee that the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency held 'several' accounts at BCCI. According to a 1991 article in Time magazine, the National Security Council also had accounts at BCCI, which were used for a variety of covert operations, including transfers of money and weapons during the Iran–Contra affair."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_C ... ernational

[theworldisawarfilm]

Genocide Organ - BCCI-ICI & Fab (from '4th World: Vital Comments On Recent Conspiracy Practices' compilation, Zaetraom 2015)


Mark Lombardi - BCCI-ICI & Fab 1972-91 (4th Version), 1996–2000


"For all of its graphic austerity, the subject of BCCI, ICIC & FAB is scandal. The drawing concerns, in part, a money-laundering operation of the 1980s involving an Arab bank headquartered in London. Here, as in his other drawings, Lombardi’s ethereal, web-like drawing diagrams patterns of collusion between corporate and governmental bodies, organized crime, and other illicit organizations. As described by Lombardi himself, BCCI “was used not only by drug dealers and con men but also by the governments of the U.S., U.K., Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Arab states to funnel support to Afghan guerrillas fighting Soviet occupation, to pay off friends and adversaries alike and conduct secret arms sales to Iran.” After researching this nexus of spurious affiliation in the public record, Lombardi began the drawing as a series of rough pencil sketches before proceeding to a larger, more precise version. Circles on the drawing identify the scheme’s main participants, while linear notations indicate their often dubious connections."
https://whitney.org/collection/works/12916

"In addition to violations of lending laws, BCCI was also accused of opening accounts or laundering money for figures such as Saddam Hussein, Manuel Noriega, Hussain Muhammad Ershad, and Samuel Doe, and for criminal organizations such as the Medellin Cartel and Abu Nidal [...] William von Raab, a former U.S. Commissioner of Customs, also told the Kerry Committee that the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency held 'several' accounts at BCCI. According to a 1991 article in Time magazine, the National Security Council also had accounts at BCCI, which were used for a variety of covert operations, including transfers of money and weapons during the Iran–Contra affair."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_C ... ernational

RIP Mark Lombardi

EDIT: Might as well add my two cents on this discussion which I have desperately avoided. Frankly, I don't think people are realistic or particularly honest in addressing the ideological and subjective nature regarding the topic at hand. I see a lot of words like "meaningful" etc. being thrown around. i.e. in what context is engagement with ______ be 'meaningful' or 'successful' or 'problematic' or 'thought-provoking'? Well the fact of the matter is that everybody is going to have a pretty radically different rubric for evaluating that. It's painfully obvious, threads like this seem to bear that out.

Some people are talking here as if there was some consensus on what people value in art--politically or otherwise; As if there was some great mystery as to why not everybody sees things the same way, a way to overcome the fact of subjectivity and plurality of opinion. Curious about an artists stance on something? Reach out to them. Whether you get the answers you're after is another story entirely and I think that people take for granted their access to information now. You won't always get what you're after, plain and simple. If you don't tolerate something, there are many things things you can do about that...

Some people find certain ideologies, actions etc repugnant. Others term things fair-game or actively support them. Some simply do not care. People will confront what they disagree with or they won't. Adults make up their minds about what they say and do--that goes for audiences and artists alike. What more is there to say? It almost seems like people are afraid to even speak this frankly on the matter. Case closed for me.

know thyself...

EDIT 2: Patricia Goldstone's book on Mark Lombardi, Interlock, is pretty good for those interested in his case and the networks he outlined in his work (could've used a second edit itself actually, but solid overall)