Dream gear and future innovations

[housepig]

we built a device that we call the wheel, it's a motor and flywheel from an old classroom turntable, mounted on wood with an inline power switch. Attached to the board is a piece of copper wire (12 or 14 gauge) with a contact mic at the end, with a piece of guitar string soldered to it like a finger. the copper wire acts as an armature to hold the contact mic in a given position, with the guitar string dragging across the flywheel as it spins. makes an ungodly racket, tonally altered by adjusting the copper wire and moving the contact mic to touch different places on the flywheel.

[SS1535]

I'm trying to conceptualize hw to make one.... Maybe a single coil pickup inside an enclosure with a spinning disc that is manually moved to scape on the pickups? maybe a contact mic added for additional frequencies? I am not a programmer so maybe an analog servo motor? OR! a small fans guts used to power a disc with contact mic? Hmmmmmmm....

I'm no engineer or anything either, but I would imagine that the motor (if you wanted to motorize it) would have to be pretty powerful---especially if you want to get a really strong scraping sound of metal against metal. I think Knurl might have done somewhat similar things with power saws or something?

However, looking back to early Merzbow, Nurse With Wound type stuff, I could see it also working as an interesting/simple drone machine if you use the right materials.

I am definitely not qualified to be an engineer nor play one on TV, but in searching on amazon I found affordable geared motors that will work off a 12 volt power supply (which I can probably hook up to a 9v battery for a slower grind) along with a control module that is pre-wired. I'm thinking maybe a hard drive disk would be light enough with maybe a nail mounted underneath to scrape the surface? If my costing is right (I also suck at math), I'm looking at $50 in parts to hopefully not screw up an experiment and god knows how many hours in labor to get it right.

The only consideration I would have in that case---and it's only a consideration, since effectiveness for these things depends entirely on desired results---is that the machine would be fairly small, creating only a comparatively small sound? Maybe if you run it through some gain after the fact, though...

Another option would be to get a small circular saw of some kind, or even rig up some stuff onto a power drill---but then you also have to contend with the sound of the motor itself being more prominent (which could be negated with line-in recording, of course).

Whatever you make, though, do post pictures!

[luciferjonez]

I'm no engineer or anything either, but I would imagine that the motor (if you wanted to motorize it) would have to be pretty powerful---especially if you want to get a really strong scraping sound of metal against metal. I think Knurl might have done somewhat similar things with power saws or something?

However, looking back to early Merzbow, Nurse With Wound type stuff, I could see it also working as an interesting/simple drone machine if you use the right materials.

I am definitely not qualified to be an engineer nor play one on TV, but in searching on amazon I found affordable geared motors that will work off a 12 volt power supply (which I can probably hook up to a 9v battery for a slower grind) along with a control module that is pre-wired. I'm thinking maybe a hard drive disk would be light enough with maybe a nail mounted underneath to scrape the surface? If my costing is right (I also suck at math), I'm looking at $50 in parts to hopefully not screw up an experiment and god knows how many hours in labor to get it right.

The only consideration I would have in that case---and it's only a consideration, since effectiveness for these things depends entirely on desired results---is that the machine would be fairly small, creating only a comparatively small sound? Maybe if you run it through some gain after the fact, though...

Another option would be to get a small circular saw of some kind, or even rig up some stuff onto a power drill---but then you also have to contend with the sound of the motor itself being more prominent (which could be negated with line-in recording, of course).

Whatever you make, though, do post pictures!

Without a doubt there would be an effects chain after the device. I spent the weekend looking at parts and making a list. Trying to use conductive metals. Even looked at mini cymbals and trying to figure out a pivoting lever that would allow a needle to rise up and scratch across the device or retract it to hit the mini cymbal. The hardest part is not having the vocabulary for the parts I need (knowing what they are called). I've spent more time searching online using different terms for what I'm looking for before finding what I actually need.

[housepig]

a pivoting lever that would allow a needle to rise up and scratch across the device or retract it to hit the mini cymbal. The hardest part is not having the vocabulary for the parts I need (knowing what they are called). I've spent more time searching online using different terms for what I'm looking for before finding what I actually need.

sounds like you're looking for a solenoid - basically it's a metal rod in a magnetic cylinder that's activated by electric current; depending on how it's set up, applying current either causes it to extend from or retract into the cylinder.

[luciferjonez]

a pivoting lever that would allow a needle to rise up and scratch across the device or retract it to hit the mini cymbal. The hardest part is not having the vocabulary for the parts I need (knowing what they are called). I've spent more time searching online using different terms for what I'm looking for before finding what I actually need.

sounds like you're looking for a solenoid - basically it's a metal rod in a magnetic cylinder that's activated by electric current; depending on how it's set up, applying current either causes it to extend from or retract into the cylinder.

I wasn't looking for anything electric based, more of a retractable needle (or nail) on a hinged lever that I could pivot left and right similar to a turntable arm but could be retracted to let the wheel spin and me manipulated in another way but the solenoid sounds intriguing.... Down yet another rabbit hole of searches.

[Bubble-Congeries]

Designing electro-acoustic noise generators is also of interest to me. I've often thought how cool it'd be to simulate the sound of gravel or stones being crunched together under feet or tires with some kind of silent/low-noise, motorized grinding dish or plate system that could be mic'd either with a piezo or shotgun.

Or even just a motorized, low-speed spinning plate and piezo system to press against surfaces. Even berber carpeting sounds cool when you turn the gain up high enough to hear all those rustling fibers.

[Atrophist]

a pivoting lever that would allow a needle to rise up and scratch across the device or retract it to hit the mini cymbal. The hardest part is not having the vocabulary for the parts I need (knowing what they are called). I've spent more time searching online using different terms for what I'm looking for before finding what I actually need.

sounds like you're looking for a solenoid - basically it's a metal rod in a magnetic cylinder that's activated by electric current; depending on how it's set up, applying current either causes it to extend from or retract into the cylinder.

The Koma Elektronik Field Kit accessory set comes with this exact thing. Plus a few other exciting gadgets. ;)

[SS1535]

a pivoting lever that would allow a needle to rise up and scratch across the device or retract it to hit the mini cymbal. The hardest part is not having the vocabulary for the parts I need (knowing what they are called). I've spent more time searching online using different terms for what I'm looking for before finding what I actually need.

sounds like you're looking for a solenoid - basically it's a metal rod in a magnetic cylinder that's activated by electric current; depending on how it's set up, applying current either causes it to extend from or retract into the cylinder.

I wasn't looking for anything electric based, more of a retractable needle (or nail) on a hinged lever that I could pivot left and right similar to a turntable arm but could be retracted to let the wheel spin and me manipulated in another way but the solenoid sounds intriguing.... Down yet another rabbit hole of searches.

Why not just use an altered turntable arm?

[luciferjonez]

sounds like you're looking for a solenoid - basically it's a metal rod in a magnetic cylinder that's activated by electric current; depending on how it's set up, applying current either causes it to extend from or retract into the cylinder.

I wasn't looking for anything electric based, more of a retractable needle (or nail) on a hinged lever that I could pivot left and right similar to a turntable arm but could be retracted to let the wheel spin and me manipulated in another way but the solenoid sounds intriguing.... Down yet another rabbit hole of searches.

Why not just use an altered turntable arm?

That my friend is an excellent question. I have to see if I can shorten on or better yet see how they are assembled to see if I can shorten one to fit an enclosure and be able to tie it into the piezo wiring. After all, Edison's machines didn't need electricity and there are tutorials for people making gramophones with paper and nails, so why not?

[MÁVAR]

Basically just a bunch of effects build into a single enclosure with stereo in/out for every effect for no input mixing similar to the Dust Collector, just bigger with more jank.

[Bubble-Congeries]

Would be nice to see pedal modders and mainstream (i.e., BOSS) manufacturers start integrating more/any 3.5mm CV inputs on pedals.

[DIODE SNORTER]

Would be nice to see pedal modders and mainstream (i.e., BOSS) manufacturers start integrating more/any 3.5mm CV inputs on pedals.

I can kind of meet you halfway there (quarter-way?): I put 3.5mm inputs on a lot of my builds but those are for LFOs.
I've been meaning to try CV but I don't quite understand it yet.
External LFO/LDR stuff makes sense to me because it's essentially just two leads with a variable resistor across them: CV [to me] seems a concept more closely associated with modular synths, and unlike pedals I have no relevant equipment to reference/test synth-related stuff.

[Bubble-Congeries]

I've been meaning to try CV but I don't quite understand it yet.

Haha. I don't either. >_> Not in terms of adapting the voltages to pedals anyway.

[luciferjonez]

I've used cv in a few instances to sync pedals together. I also found that some pedals with expression inputs will work or trigger in the same way because they usually function in a 0-8 volt range. Its is both fun and annoying trying to understand it. Like midi.

[D345]

I once dreamed of EQ pedal (machine) where the switches or one metre long and rusty iron. That you need to pull with all your strenght to move. I don't know why and I don't even care about steampunk aesthetic

[luciferjonez]

Found this from an old Ash Ley video on youtube: http://industrialhazard.bigcartel.com/p ... th-grinder

[DIODE SNORTER]

Found this from an old Ash Ley video on youtube: http://industrialhazard.bigcartel.com/p ... th-grinder

I just wanted to say thank you for digging into this. I definitely wouldn't have had the time to do it.

[luciferjonez]

Found this from an old Ash Ley video on youtube: http://industrialhazard.bigcartel.com/p ... th-grinder

I just wanted to say thank you for digging into this. I definitely wouldn't have had the time to do it.

My OCD mission! I'm hellbent on trying to build a motorized noise wheel with little to no knowledge of electronics!

[Bubble-Congeries]

I'm very interested too... Would like to throw some ideas around. Might make an interesting brainstorming workshop for one of the video parties some day.

I think one if the biggest obstacles is going to be building or repurposing motorized devices that will have enough torque, even at very low speeds, without introducing loads of undesired mechanical self-noise.

Even turntables are difficult due to their low torque and bulkiness. But imagine how sick an inverted platter with a metal disc that has hundreds of bristles of clipped, soldered-on guitar strings brushing against surfaces would sound!

I'm getting aroused just thinking about it.

[SS1535]

Maybe hand cranking would do it too?

[Bubble-Congeries]

Maybe hand cranking would do it too?

Yeah, something comparable to a hurdy gurdy or one of those old ice shavers seems feasible. My biggest concern with hand cranks is the risk of extended passages developing a rhythmic pulse or cyclical irregularitues due to the nature of imperfect human joints and appendages.

That said, even free-running machines can be guilty of pulsating speed fluctuations and self-generated, cyclical noise. Also, the idea of being able to manually "play" a mechanical noise source with irregular stops and starts and variable speed/intensity is alluring.

[luciferjonez]

As I'm researching the best options I did look at a hand crank option, multiple gear configurations, vintage coffee grinders, spice grinders, hand power drills, and side mounted gears. The parts are on online... I just need a greater understanding of simple circuits and some time to play around.

Here's a basic motor kit which may or may not be strong enough to turn a small grinding wheel and a slow speed:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B077WWS63B/ref ... F9kZXRhaWw

My goal is to marry a piezo with a volume control (also available pre-wired on amazon) with a spinning motor that has a potentiometer wired into the circuit that I can adjust the speed to fluctuate the grinding sound of the wheel on the enclosure or mock needle under the wheel. I would also like to see if I attached a wire from the piezo to the needle (most likely a nail) if that would act as an extension to the piezo mic and pickup more of the grinding sound.

[metglas]

A recent favorite of mine is the “acoustic radio” we used on the last Pube tape - a broken radio covered in grip tape that we scrape contact mics against

https://youtu.be/Fvc6aSaSmzA

[SS1535]

Maybe hand cranking would do it too?

Yeah, something comparable to a hurdy gurdy or one of those old ice shavers seems feasible. My biggest concern with hand cranks is the risk of extended passages developing a rhythmic pulse or cyclical irregularitues due to the nature of imperfect human joints and appendages.

That said, even free-running machines can be guilty of pulsating speed fluctuations and self-generated, cyclical noise. Also, the idea of being able to manually "play" a mechanical noise source with irregular stops and starts and variable speed/intensity is alluring.

That's a good point, but there might be some ways around it. Perhaps you can even rig up an old bike pedal mechanism to be more regular/electricity free?

[SS1535]

This whole discussion reminds me of a pedal-ish device I saw online some years ago that was pretty much a hand-cranked tape player that would hook up to guitar outputs.