Moving beyond "noise for noise's sake"

[holy ghost]

Ultimately, whatever form it takes, authentically enjoying noise is something we do for "fun" or "pleasure", even if occasionally at masochistically-high volumes, or because it simply gets gears turning in our brains in some way. It still boils down to the same authenticity. "Authenticity" isn't relative. *rambling*

I feel like were at the point where noise is receiving the most attention it's had in a looooooooong time, and there's some kind of subconscious dick measuring when people (I'm not saying you, b-c) talk about "authenticity". We've seen it in black metal when it got crazy popular among the "normies" and we all remember the nauseating "true doom" attitude that was so pervasive in the mid 2000's.... whatever UG genre takes off you're bound to hear people complain about what others are doing and if they have the same level of appreciation that I do.... so am I complaining about people complaining? I've become a message board ouroboros, but this is possibly why we're posting here, and not (cough) other popular message boards that cater to the same demographic. The older I get the more I recognize the futility of shouting into the void and that subcultures are for the youth, us old people need to step out of the way so we don't drag them down with our ouroboros attitudes.....

[Joie de la Blumpy]

Not yet into the cans, plural, (currently a can, singular) so apologies in advance if this spew is not sufficiently incoherent. Maybe I'll come back later this evening when I've got my in the cans hat on.

This is perhaps more tangential to the topic but seems to have been talked around a fair bit to this point, and that is what constitutes what may be called serious or possibly active listening. Cause it's been bugging the hell out of me ever since this one fly-by-night poster on one of the old boards dropped the idear:

that the best way to listen to...anything...but perhaps especially more abstracted things such as noise, might well be in a slightly distracted state

As in. One is not consciously telling the self, "I am listening to this". Rather one may be focused on other tasks or preoccupations at hand (or skull), or otherwise less fully er capacitated. I'd hesitate to refer to subconscious states, but in fact the words of said fly-by-night poster really came home this one time, actually not too too many years past, that I was listening to a really loooong recording—Jean-Claude Eloy's Yo-In in the specific. I'd fallen asleep within the first hour, but then woke up sudden-like in around the third hour, and aside from the profound disorientation of the several moments involved, these several moments, and by this I refer to the sounds, are—to this day—indelibly burnt into the cerebral cortex. Like I can literally replay the moments—the sounds—in my head right now, in exquisite detail (so I imagine), in ways I can't replay all sorts of other sounds. But in fact there are plenty of other sounds I've experienced in the same (less than attentive) way, and can replay in the same or a similarly (exquisitely detailed) way. The difference is that my experience with Yo-In occurred not long after that fly-by-night post, thus to leave me conscious of the possibility that my "deeply ingrained" recollection of certain moments—sounds—would seem to correspond with moments—sounds—first apprehended in less than attentive states of mind. So there. (Hey pretty good for only the one can.)

It's invigorating and may even leave me feeling like I got out a big release of pent-up energy, especially if I'm actually thrashing about a bit (surely everyone does this alone in their room from time to time?).

I'm afraid it's just you. Though I confess I'm only quoting you cause of your earlier Skinny Puppy comment, to which I relate, and your reference to uh id-orientation, which I thought has got to be influenced by that memorable Ogre interview extract on one of the Subconscious Vault recordings. I'm sure you know the one*.

* if not, apologies

[Joie de la Blumpy]

(so I imagine)

Okay, I'll come clean, the idear* is ludicrous simple and plain. But to affirm, says me, no less ludicrous than this tragicomical figure, sitting down and reaffirming to themselves that, "Yes. At this moment. I am listening."

No matter. I figure, as long as we're fairly firmly beyond the what is it that we call noise stage, well. We've come a pretty long way.

* that a distracted listening experience might somehow trump a consciously focused listening experience

[Scream & Writhe]

Maybe this thread is more in reference to the listener / buyer perspective? I think of those who buy physical copies of any noise release they find on Bandcamp, without any knowledge of the greater happenings or history of the genre.

Exactly. And perhaps that even better illustrates what I was trying to get at: It may not necessarily be the sounds themselves so much as it is the context, lineage, etc. Not moving beyond any alleged "entry-level" in who or what you're listening to, but becoming aware of how it all fits into place and opening that door into the great expanse.

[consumer]

I feel like were at the point where noise is receiving the most attention it's had in a looooooooong time

How so? I feel like noise gets less attention now than a decade ago.

[Bubble-Congeries]

I feel like were at the point where noise is receiving the most attention it's had in a looooooooong time

How so? I feel like noise gets less attention now than a decade ago.

A decade is a pretty long time! And I think it's fair to say that each subsequent noise boom and "renaissance" has been less and less generous to the genre/scene/subculture (if you can even call something so disparate and fragmented and regional a subculture). [Harsh] noise has, for better or worse, graduated to post-Internet meme-tier joke-genre status. It's less "cool" than ever. So, this is still a pretty big resurgence, relatively speaking.

We're not going to see Masonna on 120 Minutes again. We're not going to have the crunchy, mutton-chopped, porno-stached "indie" music press covering major noise festivals with a giant stone idol of Thurston Moore looming over the stage again. We're not going to see noise comps from Adult Swim again. Noise is "buzzing" a lot more lately, but on a much smaller scale. This time, there's no major media backing. It's definitely more of a "grassroots" resurgence. And that means it's naturally going to be a lot more subdued in terms of mainstream exposure, but it also means there's a lot more serious interest. It's no longer considered cool or culturally significant to like "noise". It's mostly just an ironic post-Internet-age clout-chasing "Look at me, I'm so weird!" thing for the TikTok generation at this point.

For better or worse, that's as "mainstream" as it gets right now. That is the only mainstream audience that might have anything to say at all about noise at the moment: The "Have you heard the Caretaker? DUUUUUUUDE SCAREE!!!" crowd. And I'm fine with that. The current boom may not last long, we might not all get famous. But the engagement feels a lot more like it's coming from people who actually care about noise as something other than a novelty or some kind of clout-chasing gimmick. as every conversation like this goes, we all come to the same conclusion that the tourists will fuck off eventually. I'm just happy there's lots of true believers and filthy casuals such as myself coming out of the woodwork. I think 2020 had a good bit to do with that. It's definitely not the only thing motivating it, but it was a contributing factor, without a doubt.

PS: I can't actually remember if I've heard that Ogre interview! It's possible, but my brain is not what it used to be. I lost several chunks of it when they fell into THE CANS. ._.

PPS:

we all remember the nauseating "true doom" attitude that was so pervasive in the mid 2000's....

I do now! Blech!

[holy ghost]

“Receiving attention” was wording it wrong, Bubble-Congeries said everything better than I could - I don’t mean attention in a (mainstream) media context, but it seems (to me) there are more people than ever discovering noise and getting involved and releasing things. Maybe I’m wrong?

[SS1535]

Maybe this thread is more in reference to the listener / buyer perspective? I think of those who buy physical copies of any noise release they find on Bandcamp, without any knowledge of the greater happenings or history of the genre.

Exactly. And perhaps that even better illustrates what I was trying to get at: It may not necessarily be the sounds themselves so much as it is the context, lineage, etc. Not moving beyond any alleged "entry-level" in who or what you're listening to, but becoming aware of how it all fits into place and opening that door into the great expanse.

This could be a problem taking one away from the "noise for noise's sake" perspective as well, though. Sometimes too much awareness of history/context can be just as limiting. Since I found Bizarre Uproar/XE first, I am sometimes feel less inclined to check out new/unknown projects with similar themes, for instance. Since I already listen to "the best," why would I listen to something that is clearly "derivative"? (Maybe some older users could do the same with Whitehouse? Throbbing Gristle even?)

This is as opposed to approaching each release as an individual artwork in and of itself.

---
A side point too, also raised by this post: Aren't most "entry-level" albums already also some of the most important? Whether we like Pulse Demon or not, it is, in many ways, THE classic Merzbow sound---probably forever and always.

[consumer]

“Receiving attention” was wording it wrong, Bubble-Congeries said everything better than I could - I don’t mean attention in a (mainstream) media context, but it seems (to me) there are more people than ever discovering noise and getting involved and releasing things. Maybe I’m wrong?

There are more people living now than ever before, and about a billion more people now than there were 12 years ago, so I'd bet on there currently being more people than ever involved in a lot of things. What recent year would you nominate as the "low point" for interest in noise?

[Joie de la Blumpy]

Maybe this thread is more in reference to the listener / buyer perspective? I think of those who buy physical copies of any noise release they find on Bandcamp, without any knowledge of the greater happenings or history of the genre.

Exactly. And perhaps that even better illustrates what I was trying to get at: It may not necessarily be the sounds themselves so much as it is the context, lineage, etc. Not moving beyond any alleged "entry-level" in who or what you're listening to, but becoming aware of how it all fits into place and opening that door into the great expanse.

This is more in line with where I thought the OP might be going, (and due apologies for having used this thread as an excuse to ramble on about another of my (seemingly bottomless supply of) pet idiocies).

Noise for its own sake is kind of an oooold thing per Tribe Tapes' comments on creativity and the whole Mikawa school of noise in general—where noise is a source of its own creative potential or "power", as Mikawa puts it. But as to the "point" where things "click". Take, say, the untitled TNB/Organum track from Ohrenschrauben (itself taken from one side of Pulp) and the musicality is obvious and immediate. And by that I refer to the density, the layered and lush play of sonicsensual moments.

So I suppose for me—and perhaps for most—things clicked from the start because the density of (certain of the initially preferred species of) noise is, to me—and perhaps to most—for me and for most, the density may be perceived as intrinsically musical. Whether you're a Tibetan Buddhist a Gregorian monk or a Ligeti. And this could as readily apply to HNW, for instance: the density (in another read) of the tightly concentrated sound, ie what you'd get in a classic raunchy guitar riff. Flatulence, as some might sod it.

If this all is to be accepted, then attempts to smash that, ie the easily connected dots, the historical context, would hardly qualify among the paths of least resistance. A chap like Cyess Afxzs would certainly have got his work cut out for him. (I for one, and with mightily amplified raspberry, am rootin and tootin for 'im!)

[bobMarinelli]

I'm curious about when and how one eventually crosses the boundary between listening to noise for noise's sake (i.e. in passing, as relative background music, or "just for fun") to active listening and a potentially higher appreciation of the sounds.

Right out of the gate, very first thing. Jap/Amer Noise Treaty, a wonderful menu of items to listen to and say "how does one make sounds like that?". And when I found the cut-up stuff, that was it. lots of sounds to experience at a near rapid fire pace! (Hail K2! Hail Endo!)

I seldom, and now never, listen without headphones. when I'm listening to noise, that's what I'm doing. listening with attention. so if the piece is slowly evolving, it's probably not my cup of tea. that may put me in the minority, but I'm ok with that. but I do admit to "recovery listening", so if I chomp down a c-30 of aural assault, THEN some washy ambient would be fine.

[Joie de la Blumpy]

Or. And I never wanted this to dissolve into one of them boring-arse how you got into the shit shits but apparently...uh. So let's say, at least as far as I'm concerned, there never really were any epiphanies, noise-wise. Just acknowledgements (or, okay, epiphanies, you win) along a continuum of continuous discovery. Things clicked, sure, but there were several such things, clicking up a storm. As in, Incapacitants are were and will be magical, sure, but so too all the others (capable of the hocus and the pocus), from The Residents to Vivenza to Borbetomagus to pick-your-epiphany-of-the-interval. I mean. Lots of connecting of dots, pink dots, current dots, nursey dots, one hundred and fifty murderous cum passionate dots. Ain't it the way it's worked for everyone? I'm going to say yes and leave it at that. At least until the next beverage, suffice it to say this one's pretty good. (See you soon!)