Cut Up

[ChicagoAnimal]

Not exactly a pure cutup noise album, but I spent the other night with Mika Vainio's Black Telephone of Matter the other night.

What an incredible work that starts and continues with a lot of cut-up or similar technique. Highly recommended. Elements of noise and otherwise experimentalism throughout.

[xIncorruptibleCorpse777x]

Here is probably a dumb question---is what is called "cut-up" noise made with actual cut ups (as in the Burroughs tradition of physically cutting up tapes or other recordings and then splicing them back together in a new order)? Or is this more of a performance style (in terms of the sounds achieved by the way the noisician alternates between instruments/sounds)?

I only ask because this is not a substyle that I have spent too much time with.

Paging Matt Reis, paging Matt Reis...

[Bubble-Congeries]

It can be either. This sub-style is more about how the sound is presented than how it is accomplished. There's no rules about methodology/how the cut-up "effect" is to be achieved.

[SS1535]

It can be either. This sub-style is more about how the sound is presented than how it is accomplished. There's no rules about methodology/how the cut-up "effect" is to be achieved.

Is it typically only a non-live subgenre? I see names like Kazumoto Endo thrown around and get a little confused, but that's probably just because I am a stickler for definitions!

[xIncorruptibleCorpse777x]

It can be either. This sub-style is more about how the sound is presented than how it is accomplished. There's no rules about methodology/how the cut-up "effect" is to be achieved.

Is it typically only a non-live subgenre? I see names like Kazumoto Endo thrown around and get a little confused, but that's probably just because I am a stickler for definitions!

I've seen Developer play countless times. Matt's brought some other cut-up artists in, too. Don't remember the names offhand, though.

[parasitenurse]

It can be either. This sub-style is more about how the sound is presented than how it is accomplished. There's no rules about methodology/how the cut-up "effect" is to be achieved.

Is it typically only a non-live subgenre? I see names like Kazumoto Endo thrown around and get a little confused, but that's probably just because I am a stickler for definitions!

there are lots of cut up projects that play live, most of which have been mentioned here already. endo played ny this year and it was phenomenal. maybe a life-changing experience for anyone interested in this specific style of noise.

would love to get this thread talking about technique if people are open to discussing their processes. ill start.

a lot of my sound comes from prepared samples. i create sample collages and also use individual samples that come from a mix of field recordings and shaker/contact mic/sheet metal and pedal sounds and load them into my samplers. i control the start time, start position and sample overlap with cv. one sampler creates collages via cv and is “played” by modules that send cv to a vca at the push of a button while the other is controlled by a touch controller that sends cv to the sampler and chooses a section of a prepared sample collage to play. ive also got a whole ambient section in my synth but thats maybe irrelevant to the discussion.

tldr; live cut up happens all the time using many different techniques and i just happened to choose a wildly complex and expensive one.

[FrenziedDestruction]

It can be either. This sub-style is more about how the sound is presented than how it is accomplished. There's no rules about methodology/how the cut-up "effect" is to be achieved.

Is it typically only a non-live subgenre? I see names like Kazumoto Endo thrown around and get a little confused, but that's probably just because I am a stickler for definitions!

there are lots of cut up projects that play live, most of which have been mentioned here already. endo played ny this year and it was phenomenal. maybe a life-changing experience for anyone interested in this specific style of noise.

would love to get this thread talking about technique if people are open to discussing their processes. ill start.

a lot of my sound comes from prepared samples. i create sample collages and also use individual samples that come from a mix of field recordings and shaker/contact mic/sheet metal and pedal sounds and load them into my samplers. i control the start time, start position and sample overlap with cv. one sampler creates collages via cv and is “played” by modules that send cv to a vca at the push of a button while the other is controlled by a touch controller that sends cv to the sampler and chooses a section of a prepared sample collage to play. ive also got a whole ambient section in my synth but thats maybe irrelevant to the discussion.

tldr; live cut up happens all the time using many different techniques and i just happened to choose a wildly complex and expensive one.

can i ask what sampler module you use? mostly just curious -- i use a polyend tracker or a modified cassette player for mine usually and then pipe it into the rack with a ears etc

[adult human]

Messed with a number of techniques live to produce cut up sounds but nothing so effective as 4 track tape deck > delay/looper. Each track filled with different frenetic material. Rapid cuts and different vol/pan configs. So easy, so fun. Evidenced here https://youtu.be/ESXVgWc2ln0?si=vxhPtuEqbhuWReJ4

[SS1535]

It can be either. This sub-style is more about how the sound is presented than how it is accomplished. There's no rules about methodology/how the cut-up "effect" is to be achieved.

Is it typically only a non-live subgenre? I see names like Kazumoto Endo thrown around and get a little confused, but that's probably just because I am a stickler for definitions!

there are lots of cut up projects that play live, most of which have been mentioned here already. endo played ny this year and it was phenomenal. maybe a life-changing experience for anyone interested in this specific style of noise.

would love to get this thread talking about technique if people are open to discussing their processes. ill start.

a lot of my sound comes from prepared samples. i create sample collages and also use individual samples that come from a mix of field recordings and shaker/contact mic/sheet metal and pedal sounds and load them into my samplers. i control the start time, start position and sample overlap with cv. one sampler creates collages via cv and is “played” by modules that send cv to a vca at the push of a button while the other is controlled by a touch controller that sends cv to the sampler and chooses a section of a prepared sample collage to play. ive also got a whole ambient section in my synth but thats maybe irrelevant to the discussion.

tldr; live cut up happens all the time using many different techniques and i just happened to choose a wildly complex and expensive one.

The reason that I asked, is that a literal "cut-up" seems impossible to perform in a live setting---i.e. you can't take a tape, cut it up, paste it together, and play at the same time (I know there is probably some exception, somewhere... haha)

What I gather is that the term "cut-up" in contemporary conveys more about a sonic experience than an actual method? Or, if not, then that cut-ups are now made by controlling samples more than any physical process.

I want to hear more about other's methods, though! I just use Jliat's cut-up generater for studio stuff.

[moozz]

The reason that I asked, is that a literal "cut-up" seems impossible to perform in a live setting---i.e. you can't take a tape, cut it up, paste it together, and play at the same time (I know there is probably some exception, somewhere... haha)

What I gather is that the term "cut-up" in contemporary conveys more about a sonic experience than an actual method? Or, if not, then that cut-ups are now made by controlling samples more than any physical process.

I want to hear more about other's methods, though! I just use Jliat's cut-up generater for studio stuff.

Yeah naturally cutting up tape and splicing it back together is a bit too slow a method for live. I always understood cut-up only meant the nature of the sound in harsh noise. I sometimes do something like "cut-up lite" where it is not constant jumpy stutter madness but utilizes the approach to some extent. You can do something like that with line selectors, loopers, delays etc even live. Sound sources do not need to be pre-recorded samples, you can have noise generators to keep the sound going. The more jumpy you want it that way the faster your hands need to be :) And to make it more interesting would require more sound sources/gear which means more complexity which means it is easier to get lost in the signal jungle if you try to go 1000mph and then it ends up sounding like crap. Or brilliant! But I enjoy the hands-on approach that it is ME controlling it and not some software or piece of hardware. Probably a bit boneheaded approach but that's my style :)

[SS1535]

The reason that I asked, is that a literal "cut-up" seems impossible to perform in a live setting---i.e. you can't take a tape, cut it up, paste it together, and play at the same time (I know there is probably some exception, somewhere... haha)

What I gather is that the term "cut-up" in contemporary conveys more about a sonic experience than an actual method? Or, if not, then that cut-ups are now made by controlling samples more than any physical process.

I want to hear more about other's methods, though! I just use Jliat's cut-up generater for studio stuff.

Yeah naturally cutting up tape and splicing it back together is a bit too slow a method for live. I always understood cut-up only meant the nature of the sound in harsh noise. I sometimes do something like "cut-up lite" where it is not constant jumpy stutter madness but utilizes the approach to some extent. You can do something like that with line selectors, loopers, delays etc even live. Sound sources do not need to be pre-recorded samples, you can have noise generators to keep the sound going. The more jumpy you want it that way the faster your hands need to be :) And to make it more interesting would require more sound sources/gear which means more complexity which means it is easier to get lost in the signal jungle if you try to go 1000mph and then it ends up sounding like crap. Or brilliant! But I enjoy the hands-on approach that it is ME controlling it and not some software or piece of hardware. Probably a bit boneheaded approach but that's my style :)

Thank you very much for this explanation, it clears up many things in my head. I guess my mind is stuck somewhere in the 1960s, where hearing "cut-up" makes me think Burroughs!

[Tinnitustimulus]

Im frankly surprised nobody has mentioned Runzelstirn and Gurgelstøck or Swimming Behavior of the Human Infant yet. Are they too quiet? Too literal cutup? To be honest I prefer Rudolfs early work because of how isolated everything sounds. Pretty sure he recording things in a studio to achieve this. Achim Wollscheid outside of SBOTHI great too.

[SS1535]

Im frankly surprised nobody has mentioned Runzelstirn and Gurgelstøck or Swimming Behavior of the Human Infant yet. Are they too quiet? Too literal cutup? To be honest I prefer Rudolfs early work because of how isolated everything sounds. Pretty sure he recording things in a studio to achieve this. Achim Wollscheid outside of SBOTHI great too.

Now I need to go back through the collabs of his in the Merzbox.

Now that this sort of stuff is being mentioned, I think Nurse With Wound has also done literal cut-ups?

[Happiness, forever]

Nurse has, yes. Early materials from the 80’s

[Happiness, forever]

Nurse With Wound:
https://youtu.be/p38vGMP2xAM?si=dR2_Slt5ehYJONz0

Bladder Flask (featuring a youthful Richard Rupenus of The New Blockaders):
https://youtu.be/kNWg-X8HXGk?si=It7_B520P2uEvAh8

Mixed Band Philanthropist (older Richard, with contributions from a bazillion peops of the time):
https://youtu.be/C_x735iflf0?si=xYwQ-QrTMUp6HOO4

[xIncorruptibleCorpse777x]

Nurse With Wound:
https://youtu.be/p38vGMP2xAM?si=dR2_Slt5ehYJONz0

On brainwashed dot com, it says that it's unavailable since 2010. There were a pic disc and "art edition" released in 2021, but that was it, according to discogs. Glad someone uploaded it!

[Happiness, forever]

There was a 2015 2xCD but I didnt think it was unavailable. Weird. It shld be nominated for and win a Grammy, just cuz

[Lactating Tardigrade]

One project I'm only recently becoming familiar with is Tyhjä Pää.

Finland might not be the first place you think of when you think cut-up. However, this project really changes that. I've heard a couple of releases on Satatuhatta, including the debut album, Prolonged Troubles In Concentration And Memory, and the 4-way split with Corral Shut, Residual, and Haudat.

I'm really enjoying the 4-way split as most of these artists are new to me and each brings an excellent and unique flavor. The description said there is a common theme shared among the artists for this split to make it sound more cohesive. They definitely achieved that as the split flows well. I think that theme is broken electronics or abuse of gear. All of the tracks sound like they pushed the frequencies as sounds often crumble and fail to hold the structure. Excellent effort by everyone involved. *Note that Tyhjä Pää is the only cut-up material on here, I just got side-tracked on pushing this release as whole.

Anyway, back to Tyhjä Pää. On Prolonged Troubles In Concentration And Memory, there is some excellent editing and fast cuts going on, but it feels different from the Japanese/Endo style in some regards. The overall sound is a full-bodied harsh, textured, very physical, and not all pedal-based. Prolonged Troubles In Concentration And Memory uses space and dynamics with a lot of physical sounds, scrap metal pangs, broken glass, and more. The second track "Pit of Despair" sounds like if GX of The Haters edited with surgical and fast-paced cuts. Listening to this album feels like looking across a concrete floor with a million shards of broken glass strewn across it, quickly shimmering and grabbing your attention with the ability to slice you open with a false move. The track "Shrapnel Garden" really encapsulate this as well and both tracks are a masterclass in highly detailed editing prowess.

I'm extremely impressed by the material both on this debut album and the tracks on the new split and certainly an artist to pay attention to. Both releases will easily be on my year-end list and I can't wait to hear more.

[SS1535]

So I just got back from buying 20 random/weird tapes from the 19 cent bin at my local record store with the goal of creating real cut-ups. (I am most excited about the home-dubbed tape labeled "real life conversations," whatever that means.) Any recommendations on tape splicing materials?

[parasitenurse]

One project I'm only recently becoming familiar with is Tyhjä Pää.

Finland might not be the first place you think of when you think cut-up. However, this project really changes that. I've heard a couple of releases on Satatuhatta, including the debut album, Prolonged Troubles In Concentration And Memory, and the 4-way split with Corral Shut, Residual, and Haudat.

I'm really enjoying the 4-way split as most of these artists are new to me and each brings an excellent and unique flavor. The description said there is a common theme shared among the artists for this split to make it sound more cohesive. They definitely achieved that as the split flows well. I think that theme is broken electronics or abuse of gear. All of the tracks sound like they pushed the frequencies as sounds often crumble and fail to hold the structure. Excellent effort by everyone involved. *Note that Tyhjä Pää is the only cut-up material on here, I just got side-tracked on pushing this release as whole.

Anyway, back to Tyhjä Pää. On Prolonged Troubles In Concentration And Memory, there is some excellent editing and fast cuts going on, but it feels different from the Japanese/Endo style in some regards. The overall sound is a full-bodied harsh, textured, very physical, and not all pedal-based. Prolonged Troubles In Concentration And Memory uses space and dynamics with a lot of physical sounds, scrap metal pangs, broken glass, and more. The second track "Pit of Despair" sounds like if GX of The Haters edited with surgical and fast-paced cuts. Listening to this album feels like looking across a concrete floor with a million shards of broken glass strewn across it, quickly shimmering and grabbing your attention with the ability to slice you open with a false move. The track "Shrapnel Garden" really encapsulate this as well and both tracks are a masterclass in highly detailed editing prowess.

I'm extremely impressed by the material both on this debut album and the tracks on the new split and certainly an artist to pay attention to. Both releases will easily be on my year-end list and I can't wait to hear more.

That full length is so good I just checked it out on your recommendation last night. Thick, sporadic sounds expertly composed together. Setting a high bar for future Finnish projects across the board.

[TYHJP]

One project I'm only recently becoming familiar with is Tyhjä Pää.

Finland might not be the first place you think of when you think cut-up. However, this project really changes that. I've heard a couple of releases on Satatuhatta, including the debut album, Prolonged Troubles In Concentration And Memory, and the 4-way split with Corral Shut, Residual, and Haudat.

I'm really enjoying the 4-way split as most of these artists are new to me and each brings an excellent and unique flavor. The description said there is a common theme shared among the artists for this split to make it sound more cohesive. They definitely achieved that as the split flows well. I think that theme is broken electronics or abuse of gear. All of the tracks sound like they pushed the frequencies as sounds often crumble and fail to hold the structure. Excellent effort by everyone involved. *Note that Tyhjä Pää is the only cut-up material on here, I just got side-tracked on pushing this release as whole.

Anyway, back to Tyhjä Pää. On Prolonged Troubles In Concentration And Memory, there is some excellent editing and fast cuts going on, but it feels different from the Japanese/Endo style in some regards. The overall sound is a full-bodied harsh, textured, very physical, and not all pedal-based. Prolonged Troubles In Concentration And Memory uses space and dynamics with a lot of physical sounds, scrap metal pangs, broken glass, and more. The second track "Pit of Despair" sounds like if GX of The Haters edited with surgical and fast-paced cuts. Listening to this album feels like looking across a concrete floor with a million shards of broken glass strewn across it, quickly shimmering and grabbing your attention with the ability to slice you open with a false move. The track "Shrapnel Garden" really encapsulate this as well and both tracks are a masterclass in highly detailed editing prowess.

I'm extremely impressed by the material both on this debut album and the tracks on the new split and certainly an artist to pay attention to. Both releases will easily be on my year-end list and I can't wait to hear more.

Thank You for your kind words!

[garrison_keillor]

So I just got back from buying 20 random/weird tapes from the 19 cent bin at my local record store with the goal of creating real cut-ups. (I am most excited about the home-dubbed tape labeled "real life conversations," whatever that means.) Any recommendations on tape splicing materials?

You can get a splicing block and splicing tape made specifically for this, but I say fuck that and use a pair of scissors and scotch tape(the clear glossy kind with the red label). Works great and it's cheap.

[SS1535]

So I just got back from buying 20 random/weird tapes from the 19 cent bin at my local record store with the goal of creating real cut-ups. (I am most excited about the home-dubbed tape labeled "real life conversations," whatever that means.) Any recommendations on tape splicing materials?

You can get a splicing block and splicing tape made specifically for this, but I say fuck that and use a pair of scissors and scotch tape(the clear glossy kind with the red label). Works great and it's cheap.

I thought about getting both of those, but my small cutter/scotch tape have been my mainstay so far. They seem to hold up surprisingly well!

So far, I have figured out the basics of a few different loop designs.

Any suggestions on interesting things to try out next?

[garrison_keillor]

So I just got back from buying 20 random/weird tapes from the 19 cent bin at my local record store with the goal of creating real cut-ups. (I am most excited about the home-dubbed tape labeled "real life conversations," whatever that means.) Any recommendations on tape splicing materials?

You can get a splicing block and splicing tape made specifically for this, but I say fuck that and use a pair of scissors and scotch tape(the clear glossy kind with the red label). Works great and it's cheap.

I thought about getting both of those, but my small cutter/scotch tape have been my mainstay so far. They seem to hold up surprisingly well!

So far, I have figured out the basics of a few different loop designs.

Any suggestions on interesting things to try out next?

Assuming you've just been making loops with a single continuous length of tape I guess the next step, apropos of a cut-up thread, would be to take a bunch of random tape, preferably with a variation of audio content, and cut that up into little pieces, think 3-10 mm in length, then splice as many of those together as needed, in random order, to create your loop.

[SS1535]

You can get a splicing block and splicing tape made specifically for this, but I say fuck that and use a pair of scissors and scotch tape(the clear glossy kind with the red label). Works great and it's cheap.

I thought about getting both of those, but my small cutter/scotch tape have been my mainstay so far. They seem to hold up surprisingly well!

So far, I have figured out the basics of a few different loop designs.

Any suggestions on interesting things to try out next?

Assuming you've just been making loops with a single continuous length of tape I guess the next step, apropos of a cut-up thread, would be to take a bunch of random tape, preferably with a variation of audio content, and cut that up into little pieces, think 3-10 mm in length, then splice as many of those together as needed, in random order, to create your loop.

Indeed. I made some loops with larger segments, but it is now time to push the cut-ups farther. Thankfully, my local record store has lots of 20 cent tapes of various home-dubbed sounds!