Edition Sizes

[WCN]

Interested in hearing thoughts about edition sizes from various types of people involved. There are a lot of interesting and relevant factors to discuss, and hopefully this can be an umbrella thread to cover all of the business/logistical aspects of releasing music, but I'm interested in starting off by approaching it from a psychological standpoint. Not intending to judge anyone, more interested in hearing honestly from the parties involved as to why they make their decisions, as well as how customers perceive them - not only in their behavior as consumer, but how they feel about it.

There is a wide range of approaches. For example, Hanson Records pressed 2 editions of 1000 of the Lucy & Aaron record last year, with plans for a CD issue since the second edition is almost sold out. On the flip side, Forlag För Fri Musik pressed 250 of the Sewer Election & Charmaine Lee LP, which sold out very fast, leaving scores of fans (in the hundreds I would estimate) who want to buy the record immediately, but cannot. Both great albums by artists with large fan bases, but two very different approaches to how to disseminate the work.

If you're a label, how do you gauge and decide how many copies of a certain release to make? Is the goal of releasing music to have it heard by as many interested people as possible, or something else? When a label leans on the leaner side of edition size, knowing there is a larger market for an item and it will sell out quickly, is it purely an economic/logistical decision that the label wants to make sure to make their money back quickly and not have to store releases for a longer period of time? Or, are there other interests/goals at play, and what are they?

I also know that some artists want their editions smaller than demand, what is the motivation behind this? Terms like "intimate," "not for everyone," "don't need more" get thrown around, but I think they don't accurately explain it. Is it embarrassing to see multiple copies of your release available for sale at original price (or less) in distros and Discogs years after release date? Is there an artistic reason for wanting to limit how many people have access to your work?

Also interested in how people feel about this as customers. I saw a comment on the discogs page for the FFH "Make Them Understand" LP (limited to 114 copies) saying "Please don’t repress this make shit worth it for true motha fuckas to own." Part of me can honestly understand this feeling, but I'm interested in identifying where it comes from exactly? What does it mean for the work itself?

We all know exclusivity/"elitism"/whatever you want to call it exist and play a significant role in distributing underground music. This is not my assessment, this is often openly professed, and something I've engaged in myself. I'm curious to hear from people about it. What is your motivation behind it as a label/artist, and your feeling about it as a consumer?

Interested in hearing from everyone about this - both newcomers to this scene/economy, but particularly the long time players.

[-NRRRRK-]

From the artist perspective, I want enough copies to meet the demand, but I do not want to rent storage to have hundreds of tapes or cds stashed away for theoretical future sales.

Which leads to the question: how big is the demand? And what to do if the demand suddenly grows?

I did all Meathook Saint tapes in editions of 13 so far. I like the number and it seems like (at this time) the correct amount to get tapes out via trades and have some for sale for a good amount of time. Seems to be the right number for the current demand. If there is interest in older tapes in the future I will happily do re-runs of them.

From a customer point of view I like to have stuff available for a decent price. Limited first runs or something like that are fine, but not always what I hunt for. Usually the regular editions are enough for me. Waiting for a repress of a title is fine with me too.

[sarinDK]

As goes with almost anything in this art space, an items limitation is fine if its at the artists discretion. As a long time fan and I guess semi-passionate collector, missing out on certain releases because they sell out very fast is just something I have accepted. That said I do check most dealers on the daily in case something new that excites me shows up. Just a fixed routine through Tesco Tordon Ljud OEC WCN etc...

250 copies of vinyl selling out that fast can be frustrating, but the alternative of making a much larger press and then having lots of copies not being able to sell in a long time could be financially devastating for the label I think? I am sure it is difficult to gauge demand for an item correctly, no matter if its a super underground/private release or an established name like Sewer Election. The two examples WCN brought up also are Collaborations between artists of not necessarily overlapping fanbases, so that makes it even more difficult.
Take for example the Door Open at 8 am reissue on vinyl. The first edition sold out within days of being announced and scalpers have set their discogs stock to 100€ ++, but the second edition is still up for grabs from the label now. This might be because the FOMO has died out or they have hit a sweet spot of copies, who knows. For me it is great to know that I can pick up a vinyl copy of that album later on still if I want to, without having to pay up ridiculous discogs prices.

Represses of classics are always welcome for me, CD or vinyl, again at the artists/labels discretion. Funny you mention that FFH album. I'd sure like to own and hear it in proper form and not just some mp3 rip, but considering the price it sells for usually, I will probably never grab an original copy. If I ever have disposable income to shell out for a second hand LP of this price range there are a lot of others that are higher up on the wantlist. Guess I'll not be a true motha fucka in this life.
After all I'm in it for the music/sounds. If the item is too limited and I missed out I will still be able to listen to it somewhere in 2022, be it on bandcamp/soundcloud or just a rip on youtube/from filesharing.

[WCN]

an items limitation is fine if its at the artists discretion.

This is the part I'm interested in hearing more about though. Of course everything is limited in some way, what makes an artist wish an item to be limited to below the expected demand? I'm not talking about any of the examples I gave, but in general. I've dealt with artists on WCN who have had such requests, which I have respected (within reason), but I'm curious to hear more about the motivation behind it from other artists/labels.

[Remi]

My take on this is a bit weird I suppose, and I've been thinking about it for a long time now because the availability of noise releases brings out so many other important topics in my humble opinion (about which I have strong and maybe not-so-humble opinions as well.) So that's my personal take and I apologize for the messy thoughts.

If something I do is released by an established label, 50-60 copies should be the minimum (or average) amount of copies made. As an artist, I don't see the point of limiting the access to your music for most people to enjoy if they want it unless it's a means to satisfy your ego (issues.) In which case you should probably spend your time being involved in other activities. And I don't see the point of releasing something if you don't care about people being able to hear it. I also don't see the point of running a noise label if you don't care about spreading the music of the artists you release material for. If you want money, you should run a commercial music label, not a fringe music one. If you want status, you shouldn't waste the time of an artist who trusts you to promote their stuff. So labels who release 15 copies of something whether deliberately or because they don't think it'll sell more should question the meaning of their existence as labels or whether the release is worth putting out and promoting. But I suppose these are issues that also mostly occur with the younger labels or crowds (my apologies for the ageist remark, please prove me wrong.)

Which brings me to how I've decided to deal with my stuff as an artist now. I've kept my releases available to whoever asks for them so far. When I ran out of covers and couldn't find more I just made personal one-off covers. It takes more time but I think it's important to keep a personal connection with individuals who make the effort to reach out to you and show some interest in what you do. I believe that's the reason why underground scenes exist, where they come from, and what it is almost, if not all, about.
That's also something that's possible when you dub stuff yourself, at home, and less with more professionally manufactured releases. There are also releases I've made that I've never advertised and only sent to friends or random people or offered as trades too. Sometimes out of laziness, sometimes because I don't think more than 3 people would be interested in hearing the second demo tape of Cumstained Sweatpants. But since homedubbing is tiresome and that my music tends to be a bit more focused now (or I put myself under more pressure, who knows), I've decided that I'll get everything pro-dubbed from now on so that I can rely on stashes of tapes for people who discover my music 3 years after the release came out and also in order to have releases ready to send for trades and not make people wait. And for selfreleased material that I won't promote I think 40 copies is good for me at the moment. Friends will get their copies, trades can happen, and nobody will be able to complain about finding out something after the fact. Obviously, this is based on my personal experience which is about having kind of open trades with people/friends I send releases to when they come out and they send me stuff back or new releases from their own projects when theirs come out, and I also have stuff available for the 2 or 3 people a year who get in touch with me through Bandcamp. I believe that in my personal case operating that way will force me to release less, or maybe better quality, material, and I guess it's a better thing for everyone.

[junkyardshaman]

Well, mostly because I make everything by hand and when something like paper gets three days to dry and it stinks in your apartment you don't want to make much more than 10-20 of them at the time. I used to dub and cut all the tapes to length when I had something to record the tapes with and when you have to find the time to sit through every minute of it, that also limits your resources, especially as most of my life at the time I spent in a car driving to shows or back from them.
I approach releases as individual works of art when I make them by myself, and then editions are just what I can make by myself. I also make quite a lot of music and don't care too much about the past, so I very rarely do same stuff again, unless someone specially asks for it and I need money. Then occasionally I make something I think more than ten people should hear, and ask for some label to help with the release, or someone else approaches me and asks if they can release something they like. The answer is usually yes, because every cup of water helps in this burning car crash I call my life.

Which reminded me, I don't know if they are on this forum so this might be a long shot, but someone asked me if they can release Electric Hobo stuff on vinyl, I answered but the communication ended there, so if you are reading this, hi!

[holy ghost]

My hot take on this controversial matter (as a guy on an Internet message board) is pretty simple. If I am a fan of your music and I make that groaning noise (the same noise I make when someone is driving 15km under the speed limit in front of me - ask my wife, she hears me do this all the time) when your release has absurd limitation I find that to be kind of a turn off. Like no one is expecting you to make 1000 copies of your harsh tape to keep in your creepy basement for five years but if you know you have 100 (or even 150) people that would buy it and you make 14, dude, what the heck are you thinking?

I mean really, do whatever you want but know I’m not going to kill myself to buy your release and I might even write you off (even if I like your vibe). There are 100000 noise artists out there and I only have so much free time and money and interest and when you break it down it just looks like you’re trying to hard to seem mysterious or cool or create some kind of (false?) hype for your products. Like if Sunn O)))) does a record limited to 250 copies I’d probably have bought it if I could get it. But I can’t! I’m a fucking Canadian and while my healthcare is free my postage is not media mail. I make a good living but I’m not paying $30 for your tape if I have to factor in postage.

In the last WCN podcast our esteemed moderators talked about people incessantly checking the S&W updates and I'm guilty as charged because I know if want to hear something I have to grab it right away. I don’t think (for example) New Forces or Dead Gods stuff is too limited, I think they hit it right on the head. But I also see (other) labels release stuff from (established) noise artists I like with tags like “limited to 20 lathe!” or “tape limited to 15 copies” and I know these will sell out in 5 seconds and I’ll see it on discogs in a month for $60. I don’t care for it. But I also know I can’t sleep on this stuff if I want to hear it.

Last time I F5’d a release was that Pulse Demon reissue and then I spent a fucking assload of money on it and then the Relapse reissue came out a year later. I felt like a fucking moron but I guess the poster looks really cool (I framed it).

[W.K.]

I'm amazed if anyone even likes my noise so I'm happy to dub a copy for anyone that is interested, except when a release has run its course or I don't want to spend time with it anymore, then you can get more recent sounds or maybe a compilation of old and new stuff. Have a few private releases that are 1-to-1 or only for a few people, but I don't see this as elitist/exclusive because I also don't announce these tapes en public.

I do get it why some people rather run small amounts, because the bigger the run the more time is involved (dubbing (if dubbed that is), printing, distributing, packaging, shipping, etc. it all adds up and in the end so if you are happy with moving only a few copies before jumping to your next project that's fine by me) and some people just like to move on when they have released something.

Hyping something up yet limiting it to a ridiculous amount because of "elitism" is pure silly bullshit in my eyes, maybe cool for a bunch of 16-year olds but c'mon, your not though because your fucking noise release is more limited and wanted than the next guy.

Those that keep their stuff available for a longer period of time are in my eyes the best people.

[W.K.]

Also people should ask more directly, seeing a tape sold out on Discogs or Bandcamp doesn't mean the artist isn't inclined to make a copy for you.

[MiseryEngine]

I am firmly behind the notion that if you’re putting out a tape for me, it should be as close to meeting the demand as you’re able to get. I completely understand if it’s a new project or a new label doing something like 25-35 copies because you can’t predict demand for something that people aren’t accustomed to but if it sells out in an hour or blows up afterward, another run shouldn’t be out of the question. The “ultra limited” aesthetic is really a huge problem in the dungeon synth scene too and it’s virtually impossible to get a physical copy of a few of the bigger artists. I think that’s a big turnoff and frankly I don’t even try with those guys I’ll just listen online.

I’ll add that not every one of your releases is going to measure up to the one that sold out with demand left over. If you make something that people feel is extra special or just a standout, be humble and make sure they can get it because your next release could very well collect dust in someone’s distro for two years.

[Remi]

I am firmly behind the notion that if you’re putting out a tape for me, it should be as close to meeting the demand as you’re able to get. I completely understand if it’s a new project or a new label doing something like 25-35 copies because you can’t predict demand for something that people aren’t accustomed to but if it sells out in an hour or blows up afterward, another run shouldn’t be out of the question. The “ultra limited” aesthetic is really a huge problem in the dungeon synth scene too and it’s virtually impossible to get a physical copy of a few of the bigger artists. I think that’s a big turnoff and frankly I don’t even try with those guys I’ll just listen online.

I think it's slightly different in the DS scene (although it still sucks.) The newer wave of releases in the genre caters to a crowd of younger people for whom collecting records or toys is the same thing. I blame the NWNisation of record collecting for that problem. If your record doesn't come on weird editions, limited numbers, with useless trinkets, etc, it's less desirable or worthy of attention than your average-looking yet musically-awesome record. That being said, think about how many copies of Fief albums or Quest Master albums have been pressed now? The bigger sellers are kept in print or see represses by the bigger labels like OOS for instance. But then HDK or Gondolin totally play the limited edition game and that's why I don't care about buying stuff they release. I mostly listen to DS online and it's ok.

[chryptusrecords]

I do small editions because I work full time to afford to release my own music on tape, and I also have to live on that money, and even that small number takes me forever to sell, maybe because I don't hock my work to labels or do really any kind of self-promotion, or maybe the demand isn't there. limited runs in this case are not an aesthetic choice but purely economical.

edit: interesting contradiction though that artificial scarcity is a problem, while too many new releases for people to keep up with also being a problem

[junkyardshaman]

Also people should ask more directly, seeing a tape sold out on Discogs or Bandcamp doesn't mean the artist isn't inclined to make a copy for you.

oh yeah, totally this. Especially is someone is ordering few things at the same time, I'll be happy to make them on demand.

[totalblack]

As stated, there's a wide variety of factors to consider; ability, resources, artists wishes, demand, etc. General policy now is that the material should see the widest possible audience, best distribution, and not disappear straight away.

Speaking personally, unless it's something that the artist requests to be more limited, no cassette release should be under 100 copies. More established artists generally do 200 straight away, sometimes more. There's been exceptions to this, for example- Worth 4 tape set, I only had a certain amount of vinyl cases available and it wasn't possible to purchase more, however material was sent to be pressed on CD at the same time tape was prepared, so no one would be unable to hear the material. I've also done tapes specifically for shows, using leftovers from extra projects- these shouldn't always be seen as definitive releases, and in most cases are for personal friends who's music I release.

More major releases are always on CD or vinyl - this can be more difficult to asses what is appropriate. 300-700 appears to be the window which most major noise\experimental releases exist in, aside from rare exceptions where material manages to transcend the underground (Lucy & Aaron, certain Hospital releases, Merzbow reissues, etc). I've been surprised by the interest certain things have garnered, and should have made 500 when I only made 300; there's also been cases where I should have made 1000. The flip side is also possible, made 300 Richard Ramirez & David Gilden collab CDs, for the most part no one gave a shit, and a year later I still have tons. In some cases things that have disappeared get reissued and will continue to. Have worked with a few artists whose careers completely exploded shortly after and the releases now trade for asinine figures. Some of them are open to represses\reissues, some decide they would prefer to focus on newer material, so it's out of my minds.

I've done enough limited releases, lathe cuts, etc. to be aware that they can cause problems, but I still feel that their existence is justified. Mania lathe cut 7"- probably 120 copies exist, people selling for 35-45eu. However the other Mania 7"s done in a quantity of 100-200 sell for 7-15eu- at the time that seemed to be the demand. This is a painful case to look at; the plan was to do limited record in advance of Mania LP, which didn't happen due to Keith's untimely passing, and would have just made a proper run of the 7" at this point. Exploring Jezebel double 5" - did more than 40 people really need this? It's for sale for less than retail currently, so likely not- I still think it's a great release however and I'm glad that it exists. These were the last limited releases that I did without having a proper large scale edition already planned. Very recently an artist that I've worked with multiple times over the last decade approached me with an idea to do a three release series of limited lathe cut 7"s. I'm curious what people would actually prefer in this case - have each of these records be proper 7"s and get them in 2022, 2023, and 2024? Or three lathes ltd 50-70 all in 2022 with a CD compiling them all shortly following? I prefer to get the material out, rather than wait years on production.

I also realize that I'm fortunate to have a dedicated space to store the stuff that I put out and distribute, and don't need to burden my partner with 10,000+ records, cds, tapes clogging the house. So in my case- I can make editions that are as big as I want, store things long term, manufacture enough to last a few years so everyone can get a copy at retail price, etc. I know for some this can be a major factor, and in my experience it can definitely cause long-term issues with anyone that you live with, not matter how supportive, as well as give you a cluttered mind living surrounded by boxes. As I grow older I am less and less concerned by putting out releases that are exclusive, not for tourists, 'kvlt' etc.. Everyone was new to this at some point, and it's significantly more personally rewarding to be able to tell someone that I have what they are looking for than it is to say no, sorry.

[New Forces]

I also realize that I'm fortunate to have a dedicated space to store the stuff that I put out and distribute, and don't need to burden my partner with 10,000+ records, cds, tapes clogging the house.

I've pushed well beyond what my wife should tolerate in terms of how much space I take up in our apartment for a few years now, this is definitely a consideration. I can only store so much label stock, to say nothing of other label's stuff.

For CD's and LP's I usually start at 300, I want them widely available for a long time. Tapes are trickier. I remain 100% committed to doing those entirely by hand, which includes dubbing in real time, printing, cutting, folding, assembling... it's a huge amount of work for my "hobby" that I only do in the evenings after my actual job. My recent batch was four tapes, each in an edition of 150, so that meant 600 tapes. It's a labor of love, but it's a lot of labor... I just hate when tapes sell out really quickly unless it's something designed to be very limited (like a tour-only release). I've often felt pressed by how much distro demand there is for tapes specifically, and wholesale on a tape is basically giving it away, but it's a constantly moving target as far as the right number. For example, for 6 months there's 4 new distros clamoring for copies of tapes, then they disappear and that demand has gone down. It probably would make the most sense financial sense to just sell everything direct and have a couple international distros but I'm definitely pro-lots of distros; as mentioned in the Taylor WCN podcast I love the experience of getting into a new artist, "digging" for releases from their discography, and discovering some unsold gems in random places online.

[33033]

This is a great topic, and one that I think about a lot as a newer label. My mind goes to a few places but I'll try to summarize the best I can.

Bent Window is a passion project, I don't want to depend on it as a source of income because that would take the fun out of it. So my framework for the label is to get stuff out that financially I can afford to, with as much attention to good quality within my budget. As time passes the ability to press more is greater as copies sell more, more people submit material, etc. so things seem to scale up.

For cassettes I've done runs of 30-50 (so far). That being said, when I get a lot of the tapes in, theres always extra j-cards in the range of 100 or so (pressed separately the company almost always gives me more). So if I do 40 copies let's say, theres 60 j-cards waiting in my shelves for a re-press. I think smaller runs of material are fine, if you go in with the thought that it could be re-pressed. I think ability to re-press is key. I've ordered excess norelcos for that purpose too.

[shrouded.in.antiquity]

I think that edition sizes are somewhat conditional on what you are trying to contribute with the label you're trying to run. I personally enjoy home-dubbing cassettes in real time and printing, cutting, and folding jcards or other packaging. For me this means that I make smaller runs of releases, but I feel extremely satisfied when all is said and done and I've numbered the final copy and I can look at the stack of them knowing how many hours of work went into making it happen. I'm not personally interested in paying for professional duplication and printing because for me that would remove the enjoyment I get from actually making the releases myself. I discovered noise culture and DIY culture around the same time so for me they are closely linked. At the same time, having a label for me means being able to release material from artists that I appreciate and respect. I'm not very interested in too much hype because if demand exceeds what I myself am able to make, it would ruin the experience of creating the releases. Along with that, there are plenty of fantastic labels doing bigger runs already and I don't need to run one of those and try to release the same projects as those labels. People have been lamenting for years that there is more new material being released than they can buy or sometimes even listen to so for me to try to create more of that would just be like yelling over an already vibrant discussion. If somebody wanted to work with me and said "I'd like 250 copies of my new release" I would say "hey that's great! That's more than I am willing and able to make so you should probably talk to one of these other labels."

With this being said, I am extremely grateful that there ARE labels currently releasing things in larger editions. I was completely overjoyed when I found iheartnoise.com before Troniks fired up again with the reissues and I could buy a copy of The Rita's Thousands of Dead Gods new, directly from the label, for $8 along with Sex/Death by Sewer Election. When Troniks became really active in 2020 again I was totally over the moon. It seems like Troniks has got a good thing going where I as a buyer don't have to worry about a new release disappearing immediately (with a few exceptions) but most releases aren't sticking around forever either (again, with a few exceptions). But Troniks is a classic label and they've been around long enough to gauge whatever their numbers may be.

From an artist's perspective, I think that a label should make as many copies of my tape as they think they can reasonably sell. It is super embarrassing to me that a few labels still have some lingering copies of some of my work even though multiple years have passed and the runs were not large. Echoing the sentiments of a few other folks in the thread, if a release sells out and people are asking about it, it can always be re-released! My policy has always been that if there's a release from my catalog that you're interested in hearing physically, get in touch and we can figure something out. I'm not interested in punishing anyone because they couldn't pick up a copy of something when it dropped. It is not my place at all to judge what anybody's financial situation is at any given time.

As for the "Please don’t repress this make shit worth it for true motha fuckas to own." This is just telling newcomers to go fuck themselves. Why does something being reissued make it somehow less worthwhile for you to own a first press? People repress celebrated and classic releases all the time and you can still find originals for exorbitant prices on discogs.

[M3nTl_Re5trnt_]

Lots of interesting and thought provoking perspectives on here.

Specifically with cassettes, I most definitely have appreciated when some labels offered to keep releases always in press by doing stuff as made to order, although I completely understand how some folk simply couldn't with what little time they had. I think what determines it is if you do things completely yourself and just sort of have that stuff on hand to make things on demand.

I find what's interesting is that either if you were operating any kind of label, especially a "hype" one, why you wouldn't push for more tapes anyways? The amount of money that goes into a release takes money no matter how DIY you do it, and with the internet and people ripping tapes for the masses, wouldn't you want to at least break even on what you're doing? Again, maybe this has to pertain to more labels that truly keep things at an extremely rare quantity.

[Mattias Gustafsson]

When Hanson Records was very active releasing tapes you could always order most of the releases. In the Troniks forum days when releases sold out in a blink it was the opposite and I always admired that. It’s inspired me. If I have tapes, cases and covers I try to have the releases I am happy with available so if someone order I dub. The handmade releases is limited but I try to do an edition that I think that there are demand for. I love putting everything together but it takes a lot more time and work.

[totalblack]

I find what's interesting is that either if you were operating any kind of label, especially a "hype" one, why you wouldn't push for more tapes anyways? The amount of money that goes into a release takes money no matter how DIY you do it, and with the internet and people ripping tapes for the masses, wouldn't you want to at least break even on what you're doing? Again, maybe this has to pertain to more labels that truly keep things at an extremely rare quantity.

The reason that labels do this is because when things sell out fast, it plays into a F.O.M.O. mentality, so people will rush to buy things immediately without thinking. Any label that has garnered any sort of hype can make basically nearly unavailable tapes, the people who do get them post them on instagram, and then everyone else sees them and wonder what they missed. Next time the label puts something out, even more people will be lined up. Slick graphic design and a "sold out" button can go a long way for moving subpar material. However if you double, or triple the quantities of these releases, they stick around for longer, people stop thinking that the label is perfect for an investment for discogs flipping, and then less people buy them. As far as I've observed, labels that repeatedly do this don't really last that long, for one reason or another.

[adult human]

I know a few people who dub to order and keep things in print which I very much admire. No way I could keep up with that personally but more power to them. I'm a believer in things being available in the long term because I like to think of music as having a longer shelf life than whatever interest it garners within the 3-12 months following its release but way beyond even the hyper saturation of DIY noise releases I think this notion has really dwindled. The life span of music releases across the board seem to be based on an initial burst of hype on release, maybe a few brief reviews or features on some very transient platforms and possibly a few end of year lists. I can't help but feel this puts listeners in a position where they're always scrabbling to grab these exciting new things but they never become treasured and frequently listened to albums. I don't hear a lot of people talking about how they're still loving whatever things made it onto their best of 2018 or 2019 releases for example.

For my own operations many years of living in unstable rental situations with no guarantees RE: long term employment and a constant lack of extra storage space make me a bit conscious of investing too much money into large editions that I may not recoup any time soon. You can only move house so many times with the leftover 200 lps from the run of 300 you put out that nobody seems to want! As much as I'd like to maintain a load of inventory to be slowly trickled away over the years as interest ebbs and flows, these realities make it hard to do runs bigger than 100. I've been lucky (?) that the two things I put out on the label so far all sold out and I made my money back but I'm also gutted than there are some people who want copies and can't yet get them. If there's one thing that doing a label is about for me it's trying to make other people excited about music that excites me, so capping that off to the 99 other people who were lucky to get a copy while another 10-??? more miss out does not feel like a success. I don't imagine it will always be the case with what I'm trying to do, that I get these fast sellers so we'll see. One thing I do is to put a note on my website to encourage anyone who missed out on an edition to write to me and say so. If I get the sense that enough demand still exists to justify another pressing I wont hesitate to make it happen.

[Capers]

With Team Boro I basically did as many copies as I could afford at the moment. I spent most of the profits on food/snus/beer as I didn’t earn enough with the part time job I had, so one sold out tape didn’t necessarily pay the next one. The only cases where the demand (at the time at least) was greater than the edition were Sewer Election and Arv & Miljö though, which I feel a bit bad about in hindsight, since those were very good recordings.

With Usagi we do editions of 300. The only one to sell out yet is the Incapacitants disc. A big name, yes, but I didn’t anticipate a reissue of a 1999 live CDR to go that fast. C.C.C.C is down to the last two copies now after nine months, collecting dust. I wouldn’t mind having a few more in stock still, but only distros have asked for it as of late so it seems the demand has been met, pretty much. A bit surprised the Macronympha double hasn’t sold more direct to customers, but I suppose people know by now that our stuff reaches plenty of distros around the globe. Which is good. Keeps me less stressed out and the distros busy and healthy (hopefully!).
I echo what has been said about the balance between proper generous editions and trying not to clog up the house with brown boxes.

[Matthias]

If you're a label, how do you gauge and decide how many copies of a certain release to make? Is the goal of releasing music to have it heard by as many interested people as possible, or something else?

It totally depends on the actual recording and release. I don't think every release has to be available forever to everyone everywhere, but there's a huge difference between albums and "in-between" stuff to me. I've been releasing records for 20 years now and it's a luxury to actually have releases selling out once in a while, compared to the thousand of records I've been throwing in the garbage over the years.

I'm a firm believer that if a recording is good enough, it WILL surface in other forms, other pressings etc, eventually. I don't think it has been addressed here yet but currently it seems like even the most obscure stuff gets the lush vinyl reissue treatment at one point or another. People just need to take a deep breath and relax a bit. I'm a rabid record collector myself and I can totally relate to the dreaded second-press-is-first-time-loser feeling, but that's my problem. Even though a completist with some artists and labels, there's always so many other great records to pick up if you miss something.

In the case of Förlag För Fri Musik, it's pretty much a cassette label that just happens to release vinyl, it's mainly for the odd things, side projects and such. We don't necessarily treat them like "albums", they certainly don't need to be available "everywhere" etc. Most covers are hand assembled to some extent and the runs are usually around 250 copies. Dan, who I co-run the label with, was keen to have the record with Charmaine Lee out on this label and to me it makes sense. It's a great recording and all but it's not necessarily a new Tonight's The Night. Stupid Discogs vinyl bubble frenzy doesn't really say anything about actual true demand from my experience, it just takes one turd to pay a stupid amount of money for a certain record for other muppets to follow. No one gave a shit about this label for many years, it's just recently that people are starting to take notice. With that said, more and more of the stuff is getting proper releases on other labels (the Astrid Mortensen LP is coming out on a US label this summer, Blod - Leendet Från Helvetet and Knutna Nävar is coming out on another label, Treasury Of Puppies is coming out on yet another label, something is in the works for the first Amateur Hour LP, the Gothenburg Sound Workshop LPs are coming out on CD etc). With my other label Discreet Music we are doing quite the opposite, with the next two LPs being pressed in 1000 copies each.

Using Sewer Election as an example, I've been doing a bunch of other Sewer Election releases in the past and with a prolific artist like that 250-300 generally seems like good enough numbers. Most of the SE albums on other labels are done in similar numbers and the majority is still available for decent prices, with just a few exceptions. And, i'm a huge fan of Sewer Election but do I really need to have ALL releases? Not really. Kassettmusik on the other hand was pressed in 500 copies as I feel it's a more definite album, there's plenty of copies left and I don't mind it being available for many years to come.

[NewApproach]

I honestly think it depends on the label and how much the label can move, be it on direct sells or distribution.
If a label have a good flow of orders and a good, constant web of distros that stock everything, why limit a release to a number that will sell out in a couple of months? Make it bigger to make sure there is some stock for a longer time. If you press 100/150 Tapes that get sold out in a couple of months, maybe it will not hurt to make a pressing of 200/250 and keep the release in stock for longer. And I'm talking about a couple of months, if it sell out in a couple of weeks or days, then it is clear that some bigger pressings are needed and something is not right.
It also doesn't depends only on the project/band but also on the label. There are cases where the labels serves as a "quality stamp" and people will buy just because that label released it so "it is good". Everything needs to be considered.
In my particular case with New Approach, I gravitate around pressings of 50/100 Tapes and 100/200 CD's (except the first Sektor 304 CD's that were pressed in 500 copies each) and for my dimention is more than enough and releases usually last for years. And lets be honest here, 200 CD's doesn't take that much space to stock. And I have limited space as many of us here.
I prefer to have a release in stock for a good amount of time, even if it doesn't move everyday, from time to time someone will buy a CD or some distro will stock a couple of copies. I think that's important.

[no_baizuo_allowed]

Depending on the format, an edition on tape might be more cumbersome than on records. But from my own experience, vinyl editions of at least 150 seem to be a good amount to get a new release out to distros worldwide, because 100 copies of something is really not very many at the end of the day. With a run of 150 one will have enough surplus to be generous, but not too many that the hobby will get out of hand.