Abstract/Weird/Outer edges

[T.D.]

13 CDs seems like a lot for the Shadow Ring, I wonder how much is in the vaults that hasn't been released in some form already? Even including all of the 'Remains Unchanged' 2xLP, the live bootleg, all the previously unreleased tracks from 'Life Review' etc. I can't figure how it adds up. Maybe some live sets, the Footprint tape? That'd be nice to hear.

Good question. Personally I own zero Shadow Ring so am not adverse to getting most/all of it in one hit but yeah, I'd be wound up if I had to balance a bunch of existing titles with picking up the holes in my collection. I guess we'll find out soon what will be included. 13 is certainly many hours of music.

Yeah, it's pretty much all hard to find now, so I'm not questioning the utility of doing a boxset. Plus, it's convenient to have in one place. More just wondering what it will include to fill up that many discs.

[totalblack]

13 cds does seem like a lot, but it’s an exhaustive project, as far as i understand there’s lots of interviews, radio performances, unreleased stuff, etc that is going into it, a massive booklet as well. I don’t know if it’ll for sure end up being that big, since there’s a chance my source was exaggerating a bit. i’ve got a rarity I need to scan and send in so I can ask then.

not entirely unrelated, but Mark Harwood - Offering could be one of the best of 2022. He kept on saying that it was a guitar record while he was in the process of making it, which was highly confusing when he finally played it for me.

[Helvitis]

Yeah, if they keep the albums on individual CDs thats 8 already, 9 if they split up lighthouse like the LP version. So thats still quite a bit of extra material but Im all for it. It will be great to have all that stuff in one release.

[totalblack]

Shadow Ring box will be 12 cds + 1 dvd, and a large booklet

[stomachache]

would love to know how they find/decide on the artists they put out that they don't personally know - a really vast catalog of artists on IDDB!

Haha yeah... I have been receiving this question many times but I don't quite get it, isn't that what labels are supposed to do, seeking out awesome new music? (Or do you mean releasing stuff with people you haven't met? Haven't really thought about it but I have met a majority of the artists at this point) Never really been interested in fitting into a certain genre or... uhm, "scene", I release stuff that I like, it's quite simple. Full respects to labels dedicated to only releasing cute twee pop or free jazz or whatever, that's just not where im at. So much good stuff out there. That sounds nothing alike. Always loved diverse labels like above mentioned Siltbreeze which of course is totally impossible to pin point to a certain sound, more like certain "eras". I love that shit! I don' think SB would be held in the same regard today if Tom Lax just had put out a huge bunch of Harry Pussy or Strapping Fieldhands clones for 30 years. We need Tyvek and Ex-Cocaine too. I totally get if some "turns" in the IDDB discography could been seen as strange and I certainly don't expect anyone to like it ALL, but in my head there's a red thread there.... somewhere..... ;)

I agree - seeking out different and interesting music is the principal function of a label (at least to me, a consumer primarily) and really what I admire about them. I tend to look for the same thing in labels as I do in artists - keep experimenting, morphing, & evolving - in the music that is made and the releases that are brought to life.
While I can see why a few previous comments say they are underwhelmed by No Rent Records as a whole, there are some really excellent releases on the label, and I for one am glad they continue to put out music by artists pushing boundaries, exploring the outer realms of sound.

[T.D.]

13 cds does seem like a lot, but it’s an exhaustive project, as far as i understand there’s lots of interviews, radio performances, unreleased stuff, etc that is going into it, a massive booklet as well. I don’t know if it’ll for sure end up being that big, since there’s a chance my source was exaggerating a bit. i’ve got a rarity I need to scan and send in so I can ask then.

Interesting, thanks for the info. Have most of it already so was really hoping I could sit this fucker out, but if it's got a bunch of unreleased material I might end up folding. So much for my daughter's tuition fund!

Moving on from the consumer report, I've been on a bender of all things Andrew Chalk and Timo Van Luijk related lately, two artists who definitely fit into the scope of this thread. They're both quite prolific on their own as well as together in Elodie, it's endless really, lots I'll never hear. I'm sure most around here are familiar with Chalk's first, all too brief, project Ferial Confine (tape on Broken Flag, collaborations with TNB), definitely one of my favorites out of the 80s UK industrial/PE/noise orbit. He also shows up on some Organum recordings around this time too, which makes sense based on the sounds used by FC.

Starting around the early 90s his work became less noisy and more atmospheric, delicate even, though always evading easy description. There are drones as a compositional element but it is not drone or ambient, it is often pretty musical and played in real time, but occasionally highly abstract/edited, like on his excellent collaboration with Giancarlo Toniutti. Guess the only near-constant is a vague feeling of melancholy, longing, fading beauty etc. (same goes for Timo). He's worked with tons of people over the years (Christoph Heeman, Ralf Wehowsky, Vikki Jackman...), an exhaustive list of releases is impossible but a couple off the top to get things moving:

-Chalk/Wehowsky/Lanzillotta 'Yang Tul' (Anomalous, 1998)
-'Over the Edges' (Steamline, 1999) - his best drone heavy (something I typically don't go for) work I've heard
-Mirror 'Nightwalkers' (Robot, 2000) - long running project with Christoph Heeman, still going today I believe
-'Blue Eyes of March' (Faraway, 2006)
-Chalk/Scott 'Wild Flowers' (Skire, 2013)
-'Circle of Days' (Faraway, 2014)
-'Ghosts of Nakhodka' (no label, 2014) - an odd one, very synth heavy, Cluster-ish at times
-'Chalk/Van Luijk 'Night of Experimental Film IV' (B.A.A.D.M., 2020) - slightly different than what they do in Elodie

Timo Van Luijk got started I believe in the early 90s as a member of Noise-Maker's Fifes along with Geert Feytons and others. What little I've heard of that project definitely hints towards his future work, though it is a little rougher around the edges, utilizing organic material like tree stumps for sound sources. I might like Timo's solo material as Af Ursin even more than recent Chalk recordings. There is a bit more 'going on' in it, though always in a very understated manner, like a stripped down form of avant classical and folk. It also incorporates a lot of acoustic elements with little to no processing, which gives it a unique character in context, plenty of strange looking homebuilt instrumentation and whatnot. Lately I've been particularly into 'De Overkant' (2014), 'Aika' (2008) and 'Murrille' (2002), all released on his own La Scie Doree.

There are many fine Elodie records as well, but I think I've gone long enough for now. I'll end my dissertation by saying that a lot of these do end up sounding the same after a while, at least to my unsophisticated ears, so no need to grab everything unless you're a total nut for the stuff (in which case you'd have no use for this summary). At times their work also veers too close to sounding like 'post-rock' or something, and can get a bit cloying or precious in spots. You need to be in the mood, like anything else, but I do admire how off in their own world they are. For obvious reasons (i.e. the overwhelming bleakness of modern existence) most contemporary experimental music and art concerns itself with representations of the Negative. I don't have much of a problem with that, but it is nice to catch a break once and a while.

[adult human]

Thanks for this post, T.D! I've had so little engagement with Chalk et al that this is a great place to start. I tend to veer away from overtly drone based music (od'd on it years ago, have yet to re-develop a taste) however I do tend to dip my toes into Organum from time to time. Loads to work with in these recommendations and I'll aim to dive in soon.

[T.D.]

No problem, hopefully you end up liking some of it. A few of Chalk's 90s/00s records could fairly be called drone, but I wouldn't characterize anything I've heard from the last decade + that way. It's always minimal, but more in an Eno/Budd kind of way. Sema/Robert Haigh is another loose reference.

Some Elodie material actually gets very hypnotic in an almost Kraut Rock way (minus all the rock). Like a non-jammy Agitation Free or Dom 'Edge of Time' type thing.

[Capers]

Later (eeerr post 2000?) Andrew Chalk has been hit miss for me. Love Ghosts Of Nahodka. Time Of Hayfield puts me to sleep. Never tried Elodie for some reason though. Perhaps I should, since I’ve never been disappointed by anything Timo Van Luijk. My Af Ursin favorites are probably De Overkant and the beautiful leaving-earth-record Itinera. The Van Luijk & De Croene LP Fortune de Mer is a favorite as well. Very cinematic and pretty wild, at least for coming from those two. Dramatic stuff.

[rinco]

Many great Chalk solo releases already mentioned, but a few favorites that I haven't seen named...

Violin By Night, 2011 - A masterpiece. I've listened to this one for 10 years now and it hasn't lost an ounce of its emotional weight. Compositionally very interesting too, curious to know what's being appropriating outside of his own playing and likely never will. Very tragic and existential. CD reissue does the trick.

Shadows From The Album Skies, 2005 - Insane title. Compiles two pieces of gorgeous aching drone that originally came out on cdr. Part 1 is the standout and has this controlled light feedback floating around that feels like lens flare on a blindingly sunny day. A very restricted mid/high mid EQ range. The second piece is a bit less remarkable. More grand and emo relative to the first but still an absolutely lovely, affecting listen. They go well together.

Vega, 2005 - Restricted EQ similar to Shadows From The Album Skies but more emotionally complicated and mysterious feeling. Has some commonality with the cinematic feeling of Violin By Night. There is overlap too between this and the last MB albums of the 80s before he disappeared, the balanced weighty ambiguity that doesn't indulge in cheap moves. Downer but realistically so.

彼岸 / 悲しき配分, 2016 - Cassette release of two unhurried pieces which operate on the more emotional end of his sound. A real heartbreaker.

A Light At The Edge Of The World, 2016 - Hadn't heard this one in a few years but listened a lot when it came out. Single long piece of processed piano with a sound that feels like a development of what I remember the first album with Tom James Scott tapping into. The processing is a bit like some of what happens on Violin By Night, but the music itself is less dramatic and more kind.

[T.D.]

Great post ^^^. I've not heard any of these besides 'Vega'. Never considered late first phase M.B. in connection to it either but makes sense, will have to listen soon with that in mind.

Likewise I've not heard Af Ursin's 'Itinera', will add it to the list. I have the opposite holes with Timo's work, where I think the only collabs I own are as Elodie. Might as well start by looking for the De Crone LP mentioned.

[MuhSteve]

I like Andrew Chalk's early project Feral Confine. The first release was on Broken Flag and reissued not so long ago by Siren Records. Fusetron reissued "The Full Use Of Nothing" on vinyl. Well worth hunting out.
I liken his later (solo) work to that of Sema / Robert Haigh.

[adult human]

Currently enjoying a new-to-me but available-since-2009 'Non-Euclidean Elucidation of Shamanic Ecstasies' by Harappian Night Recordings

I really, REALLY love this project despite only having 2 releases. The sound always veers around wildly on each record: weird pseudo religious ritual bell tinkling and chanting combined with gritty EAI banging and crashing, little moments of bedroom punk rock, music of arabic cinema and radio wrung through blown out amps and often some real straight up rinsing guitar/electronics noise skronk improvisations. It's a really tough thing to pin down despite clearly having this half serious/half tongue in cheek focus on various kinds of non-western music as a through line in everything plus an extremely DIY, homemade quality. Sometimes you're not sure if you're hearing actual pieces made by the man himself of if he's just put a mic up against his TV or stereo. The result of a genuinely creative but very low key artist and I wish there was more. One of the projects I'd cite as having produced some of the most interesting and singular music in the UK underground of the last 10 or so years, easy.

Very insightful interview here http://yesteryear.palmwine.it/2011/01/2 ... interview/

[BobD.]

Currently enjoying a new-to-me but available-since-2009 'Non-Euclidean Elucidation of Shamanic Ecstasies' by Harappian Night Recordings

I really, REALLY love this project despite only having 2 releases. The sound always veers around wildly on each record: weird pseudo religious ritual bell tinkling and chanting combined with gritty EAI banging and crashing, little moments of bedroom punk rock, music of arabic cinema and radio wrung through blown out amps and often some real straight up rinsing guitar/electronics noise skronk improvisations. It's a really tough thing to pin down despite clearly having this half serious/half tongue in cheek focus on various kinds of non-western music as a through line in everything plus an extremely DIY, homemade quality. Sometimes you're not sure if you're hearing actual pieces made by the man himself of if he's just put a mic up against his TV or stereo. The result of a genuinely creative but very low key artist and I wish there was more. One of the projects I'd cite as having produced some of the most interesting and singular music in the UK underground of the last 10 or so years, easy.

Very insightful interview here http://yesteryear.palmwine.it/2011/01/2 ... interview/

I’d never heard of this but just listened to Shama/Parwana on bandcamp, and really enjoyed it. Bits of music, junk sounds, and weird vocals flying all over the place; I do have a soft spot for this kind of thing! I’ll have to hunt down some tapes.

[adult human]

I’d never heard of this but just listened to Shama/Parwana on bandcamp, and really enjoyed it. Bits of music, junk sounds, and weird vocals flying all over the place; I do have a soft spot for this kind of thing! I’ll have to hunt down some tapes.

You definitely should hear this one! An all time favourite https://krayonrecordings.bandcamp.com/a ... kay-chutar

[BobD.]

I’d never heard of this but just listened to Shama/Parwana on bandcamp, and really enjoyed it. Bits of music, junk sounds, and weird vocals flying all over the place; I do have a soft spot for this kind of thing! I’ll have to hunt down some tapes.

You definitely should hear this one! An all time favourite https://krayonrecordings.bandcamp.com/a ... kay-chutar

Thank you!

[rinco]

The above discussion of Harappian Night Recordings brought this to mind. Here's one I don't see written about much, if at all... So in 2008, Adam Stonehouse's noise rock band The Hospitals culminated in a considerably more abstract fashion with the self-released 00s masterstroke Hairdryer Peace. The LP was hard for me to wrap my head around then - having been a fan of the Hospitals records on In The Red and Load through high school, the closest comparison I had to grab for Hairdryer Peace was Twin Infinitives, though I'd contend that HP is a more interesting and disturbing statement. It is still hard for me to wrap my head around the LP now, though the intervening 14 years have left me much more familiar with the myriad genres of avant-garde/tape collage/free/industrial music that the record is pulling from. Stonehouse didn't immediately follow up with a new project or band, but 8 years later he self-released an LP called 2017 as Angel. It's more explicitly song-oriented than the last Hospitals record, lifting heavily from motifs of glam and 70s/80s rock, but is no less free and strange. There's also a jarring and wonderful exotic element courtesy of Spencer Clark - they were friends in Portland, I believe. Anyway, 2017 is a trip and a favorite musical weird/outer edge record of the 10s so far. Copies aren't hard to find and at least in terms of what I pay attention to it seems to have completely flown under the radar 6 years ago. I hope he has something in the pipeline for 2024.

[adult human]

The Hospitals self-released 00s masterstroke Hairdryer Peace

I'd not heard of this band before and had a listen to a track from the album. Pretty great! I'd need to hear the whole thing to comment fully but it seems to possess a lot of features you'd find in that late 00's milieux of home made, lofi, abstract guitar music. It's probably unfair to bundle this in with some of the more popular stuff of that time (again, only going off one track) but a lot of that music wound up becoming saturated and/or tainted by key artists recording in decent studios and getting all Pitchforky and Coachellaish. A shame really because listening to things like this now you can hear how creative it is. For better or worse I'm tangentially in touch with quite a bit of underground noisy rock today and little if any of it comes anywhere near to actually being this strange and ambitious.

[Helvitis]

Adult Human you arent wrong. They were linked to the load records/harsher side of garage/noise rock going on around then and their earlier records are kind of more in line with that scene but imo Hairdryer Peace is a minor master piece that stands pretty much on its own. I'd definitely give the whole album a listen when you have the time.

[Knifedoutofexistence]

I’d never heard of this but just listened to Shama/Parwana on bandcamp, and really enjoyed it. Bits of music, junk sounds, and weird vocals flying all over the place; I do have a soft spot for this kind of thing! I’ll have to hunt down some tapes.

You definitely should hear this one! An all time favourite https://krayonrecordings.bandcamp.com/a ... kay-chutar

Krayon! Dorset weirdos forever. Might actually have been a Krayon night I saw you play at for the first time?

[MuhSteve]

The Moon Unit LP on Krayon was a great release .. I liked their work with Neil Campbell too.
I guess they're not releasing anymore?

[urall]

Later (eeerr post 2000?) Andrew Chalk has been hit miss for me. Love Ghosts Of Nahodka. Time Of Hayfield puts me to sleep. Never tried Elodie for some reason though. Perhaps I should, since I’ve never been disappointed by anything Timo Van Luijk. My Af Ursin favorites are probably De Overkant and the beautiful leaving-earth-record Itinera. The Van Luijk & De Croene LP Fortune de Mer is a favorite as well. Very cinematic and pretty wild, at least for coming from those two. Dramatic stuff.

I was lucky enough to see Van Luijk Perform a couple of times already and it never disappoints. Last time was actually with De Croene which was fantastic. The same evening Andrew Chalk played as well as a trio with Ecka Mordecai & Tom-James Scott.

As 'outer edges' go i've always liked Steve Roden and i don't see his name pop up a lot. I haven't followed his latest releases, but he has a large discography of great stuff ,and his older project In Between Noise is great too.
https://steveroden.bandcamp.com/

[Knifedoutofexistence]

To the best of my knowledge they’re not. I know the last live event they did was a show for Wanda Group, maybe 6 or 7 years ago?

[electric knife]

Krayon was a great little label and the guy who run it was such a nice chap. Yes, he's not been active for a long time now. First time i met him was at Colour out of Space (probably 2013?) and he was so happy that Steve Fricker (Onomatopeia) was originally from Bournemouth like himself

[Knifedoutofexistence]

Krayon was a great little label and the guy who run it was such a nice chap. Yes, he's not been active for a long time now. First time i met him was at Colour out of Space (probably 2013?) and he was so happy that Steve Fricker (Onomatopeia) was originally from Bournemouth like himself

Very little of note happened in Bournemouth a lot of the time, so it was/is easy to get excited over the small things like that!