(Potentially) "Problematic" Lyrics/Themes in Noise Music

[drift]

some fairly good posts in this thread, I thought. I remember finding out that sudden infant wasn't a generic pro peado artist but made noise about his father abandoning him as a child. it DID make me think about it, and not overtly in a pitying way. I suppose the cruise cover can come off either way, depending on what's happening rn and what you believe. which is another good example of "making people think". even the attempt is has to be applauded (I'm thinking of stuff like Straight Panic, which almost works, and that itself is kinda mind blowing).

so yeah the existence of idiots can help, and not just in order to have something to complain about.

[+hp+]

u guys let me know if this is too mean spirited transgressive or off topic and ill delete it and issue a long apology

[drift]

I think there is something reassuring if you can surprise people that you don't have to be offensive to make PE... and i kinda wanna see the long apology anyway. that's the last time I ask someone to "make some noise" during sex

[xIncorruptibleCorpse777x]

pE without offensive bonehead lyrics is just a white dude rapping without any skills

Even with it, that's usually all it is.

[xIncorruptibleCorpse777x]

I think there is something reassuring if you can surprise people that you don't have to be offensive to make PE... and i kinda wanna see the long apology anyway. that's the last time I ask someone to "make some noise" during sex

LOL

[SS1535]

The problem with "making art that makes people think" is that you can't really decide beforehand what will make people think. Most art, even the most thoughtful and deep won't even register.

Hence the Whitehouse "Cruise" cover text again!

I sincerely doubt many artists with "problematic" themes have understood such truths regarding the art world and are commenting on that level.

I was referring to consumers rather than artists there.

[adult human]

not that i personally am interested in hurting anyones feelings(besides Sitters and lameoids who dont believe in Rock n Roll, i want them to cry TEARS OF BLOOD)

I'm sorry, but this just won't happen to me, at least. I like you too much.

if you wanna be a cool and dangerous bad boy in 2022 u just gotta be more creative, right? its not like there arent a billion horrible things in this dumb world to talk and whine about

This is a really good point. I'd say you need to be creative in what you're trying to articulate and how if invoking these topics. It doesn't cut it to just mention something horrible now, but that's all these guys tend to do. I can easily find interviews with drug addicted sex workers or hideous news footage or political speeches in full and in their original context as easily as heading to fucking Reddit or YouTube. Materials like this, as they are, speak for themselves and cause me to reflect more deeply than when somebody appends a clip of it to their little 3 mins of feedback and yelling. I don't consider or learn anything new through this interpretation of the source. It makes me think they likely don't have anything to add.

or the fact that all your iphones and electric cars are made with tons of cobalt that is supposedly only mined by child slaves? dang that sucks

it seems like this one and the "hates/turn offs" thread both have tons of whining and complaining (dont get me wrong i Love to Complain too) but like how about some SOLUTIONS?

https://youtu.be/j-2_t-_Y2B8

Yes, it's worth talking about who gets things right. Not only is this Am Not video dealing very much with one of the themes you mention but it is an all too rare example of what can happen when someone with intelligence, vision and a will to do something besides repeat what they have seen done before decides to adopt PE as their medium. This, imvfho, is what it looks like when you have something to say about a topic besides pointing out that it exists and is nasty, and you are able to imbue these ideas into the work itself rather than lean on some nonsense proposition that we must understand how 'personal' they are in order to glean a thing from them.

[xIncorruptibleCorpse777x]

adult human,

Some very good points there. Btw I'm a big fan of Am Not and especially that album. Partly, in fact, due to that video. I wasn't aware of just how bad that particular situation was and I found it helpful in widening my knowledge base of recent history (and hopefully, understanding of it). And I definitely feel that it was more useful and less exploitative than a number of other artists' use of similar material. But obviously that's just my personal take and I could be wrong.

[drift]

here's my point about including a surprise element if you're going to contextualise things

u guys let me know if this is too mean spirited transgressive or off topic and ill delete it and issue a long apology

suppose the text on the right read "granddad" instead of "grandma"... you then ask your own questions, like "they couldn't afford a male actor" or "is PE too transgressive for old women" and your ideology is immediately under threat. however sure of yourself you are (they could afford a male actor, but "grandma" is in a relationship with the artist).

[TYHJP]

Flower Power Electronics project in the works...

[SS1535]

Flower Power Electronics project in the works...

Haare?

[Pigswill]

u guys let me know if this is too mean spirited transgressive or off topic and ill delete it and issue a long apology

lol based

[thatonekidatshows]

Alright, I finally read through BOTH the entirety of the Dislikes/Turnoffs thread and this one, and I must apologize for this thread being somewhat redundant.

That being said, I'm glad that people participating in this thread have started to get more at what I hoped with this thread. Sure, we can talk (and, by god, we fucking have ad nauseam) about edgy power electronics projects that don't really accomplish anything meaningful, but I think the topic should be broader. Truthfully, yes, I was mainly thinking about the former when I created this thread, but, while I wasn't consciously aware of it until it was mentioned in this thread, I did want the conversation to be more than that.

Anyway, I wanted to add my two cents, but I wanted to read the other thread first to make sure that I could add something new. That took a long time, and I haven't had very much time to post on forums lately. Please do keep the discussion going, though. There are a few posts here that really made me think. I do have things that I want to say, but I need to go to sleep now. I look forward to posting them when I get a chance. I'm just hoping that I don't forget them in the meantime, ha ha.

Even if y'all are annoyed by this thread/the topic in general, I appreciate your thoughts and responses. It helps me work through my own struggles deciding what I want to do with my own projects. :)

[xIncorruptibleCorpse777x]

I'm glad that we were able to be of some help! Hopefully something I said was.

[chryptusrecords]

https://youtu.be/j-2_t-_Y2B8
Am Not

yeah came to name drop Am Not as well, oh who in PE is writing songs about coltan in phones? it's Tamon and that's it pretty much. whoever said that noise people don't engage with this stuff is right. if there are people who know about politics and history in noise it's because they're interested in those things independent of noise. and people who don't know about history and politics will just miss the references and never bother to look them up.

and this raises the question; why even try to say anything serious or challenging in PE? just do politics in real life.

[SS1535]

https://youtu.be/j-2_t-_Y2B8
Am Not

and this raises the question; why even try to say anything serious or challenging in PE? just do politics in real life.

Why do any political art then? I don't see any reason to distinguish power electronics from other forms of art/music in regards to its potential.

[drift]

why do political art

well, I do political things "in real life" and don't do political art (at all). I read some of the lukacs/benjamin debate in my 20s, and realism etc., even if it could raise consciousness, would probably be bad art. which has a place, but I'm a pretentious asshole.

imho you probably CAN change people's mind with underground music, but very slowly... as chryptusrecords points out, it's inefficient, even if you do enjoy the process.

so to an extent it's virtue signalling with friends...

[chryptusrecords]

Why do any political art then? I don't see any reason to distinguish power electronics from other forms of art/music in regards to its potential.

the difference is the size of the audience. if you want to reach lots of people, power electronics is not the form for it. if your political project doesn't involve reaching people or changing minds, maybe you're doing something very niche and specific and simply trying to connect with like minds. that's also better done not in power electronics but in actual political spheres.

edit: 'industrial music' in the 80s in UK had a specific project, there's a reason why whitehouse is called "whitehouse." they're engaged with the culture they lived in. the 'extremity' and obscurity serve a conceptual purpose. same with boyd rice. the obscurity serves to draw in a certain type of person who will then go on to read 'apocalypse culture' and then 'siege' and so on.

[xIncorruptibleCorpse777x]

Why do any political art then? I don't see any reason to distinguish power electronics from other forms of art/music in regards to its potential.

the difference is the size of the audience. if you want to reach lots of people, power electronics is not the form for it. if your political project doesn't involve reaching people or changing minds, maybe you're doing something very niche and specific and simply trying to connect with like minds. that's also better done not in power electronics but in actual political spheres.

edit: 'industrial music' in the 80s in UK had a specific project, there's a reason why whitehouse is called "whitehouse." they're engaged with the culture they lived in. the 'extremity' and obscurity serve a conceptual purpose. same with boyd rice. the obscurity serves to draw in a certain type of person who will then go on to read 'apocalypse culture' and then 'siege' and so on.

The goal of most of my live noise, metal, punk, etc has been is to help bring awareness to subjects that many people aren't; mental health and US foreign policy that kills innocent people. It's (primarily) instrumental, but I do talk about it and it's usually to a crowd who are paying attention to me. The same thing happens when I do spoken word poetry (which I've also done at metal and hardcore punk shows at the request of bookers, as I actually have a local following for it). My material doesn't come across as pretentious or pushy; I just read my material off a sheet and am told that my voice is monotone. It's not intentional, it's just how I am. Don't feel any need to add emphasis to it. And I'm not here to give a sermon or be self-righteous. I just tell people how I feel about some things. And despite my progressive politics, I'm very morally conservative in how I live my day-to-day life. So I end up reaching people with a wide variety of views. Haven't really had a chance to perform since 2015, though, so I don't know how I'd be received now. But I get along with most anybody. As long as they're not egotistical - that's something I generally find insufferable.

[nezalezhnye]

https://youtu.be/j-2_t-_Y2B8
Am Not

yeah came to name drop Am Not as well, oh who in PE is writing songs about coltan in phones? it's Tamon and that's it pretty much. whoever said that noise people don't engage with this stuff is right. if there are people who know about politics and history in noise it's because they're interested in those things independent of noise. and people who don't know about history and politics will just miss the references and never bother to look them up.

and this raises the question; why even try to say anything serious or challenging in PE? just do politics in real life.

Great conversation. It makes total sense that his second 7" came out on Ant Zen... very appropriate label to host him.
Yet I don't like Am Not in the sense of his work existing 'in opposition' to everything else, in fact I don't think that's his reason for being at all. I think his releases are best appreciated on their own terms; even alongside other current acts, rather than 'in opposition' to all else. I actually find that notion (quoted) somewhat problematic, so perhaps it's a good contribution to this thread.

Also: wonder when Am Not's next proper album will be? He seems to have gone off on the most bewildering of tangents after The Developing World: EP after EP - 10", 7"s, limited tapes. All highly collectible just to be able to follow the direction/s of his work.

[adult human]

https://youtu.be/j-2_t-_Y2B8
Am Not

yeah came to name drop Am Not as well, oh who in PE is writing songs about coltan in phones? it's Tamon and that's it pretty much. whoever said that noise people don't engage with this stuff is right. if there are people who know about politics and history in noise it's because they're interested in those things independent of noise. and people who don't know about history and politics will just miss the references and never bother to look them up.

and this raises the question; why even try to say anything serious or challenging in PE? just do politics in real life.

Great conversation. It makes total sense that his second 7" came out on Ant Zen... very appropriate label to host him.
Yet I don't like Am Not in the sense of his work existing 'in opposition' to everything else, in fact I don't think that's his reason for being at all. I think his releases are best appreciated on their own terms; even alongside other current acts, rather than 'in opposition' to all else. I actually find that notion (quoted) somewhat problematic, so perhaps it's a good contribution to this thread.

Also: wonder when Am Not's next proper album will be? He seems to have gone off on the most bewildering of tangents after The Developing World: EP after EP - 10", 7"s, limited tapes. All highly collectible just to be able to follow the direction/s of his work.

Yes, the Ant Zen release is extraordinary. A real development and honing of his style.

I agree totally that the strengths or purpose of Am Not isn't as simple as taking oppositional stances to the rights or wrongs perceived by the project. Rather it is a multilayered observation of contemporary socio-political existence in all it's impossible, doomed glory. It has never felt to me as though it's the result of Tamon just talking about things he doesn't like, even if the lyrics undoubtedly represent his opinions at times. The power of it, for me, is in the breadth of his subject matter as well as his ability to tie it all into an over arching perspective. We will see rare earth mineral mining, Barack Obama's war crimes, the racism embedded into the founding of the USA, the post-ministerial careers of retired British politicians and more still serving as the basis of entire songs with ultra precise, informed lyrics crafted from each subject, but everything feeds into the overall interests of the project as a whole - power, the crafting of civilisations, history and its relationship with the present and the corrupt, profit driven human fallibility which lies at the heart of all of it. He doesn't tell you what to think and how to feel and I think it is significant that often his vocal delivery is unemotional, clinical, factual. Precisely because he has such an awareness of the unsolvable brutality and violence embedded into the things he is talking about as real life phenomena, he doesn't insult the intelligence of his audience by drenching the presentation in an emotive wash connecting the material more to his own anger or personality than the ideas he aims to communicate.

[chryptusrecords]

Great conversation. It makes total sense that his second 7" came out on Ant Zen... very appropriate label to host him.
Yet I don't like Am Not in the sense of his work existing 'in opposition' to everything else, in fact I don't think that's his reason for being at all. I think his releases are best appreciated on their own terms; even alongside other current acts, rather than 'in opposition' to all else. I actually find that notion (quoted) somewhat problematic, so perhaps it's a good contribution to this thread.

Also: wonder when Am Not's next proper album will be? He seems to have gone off on the most bewildering of tangents after The Developing World: EP after EP - 10", 7"s, limited tapes. All highly collectible just to be able to follow the direction/s of his work.

Was not trying to imply Am Not is purely 'oppositional' and petulant, I meant in terms of who is dealing with concrete political issues in power electronics scene these days, rather than simply plastering synth loops with certain aesthetics that connote vague 'radicalism.' This is why his work is able to deal with various themes without being didactic and ideological; reality happens regardless of our personal beliefs, politics is shaped by economics etc. and not the other way around. The history and reality is real regardless of what we feel about it. And, in fact, they exist simultaneously as "good" and "bad," real life is morally complicated. Liberal democracy enshrines the 'rights of individual' while also creating a world where nothing matters beyond capital, and so individuals feel at once 'free' and 'oppressed,' at least in the west.

anyway... I know there's a new Am Not full length in the works, but I don't know what label it will appear on.

[thatonekidatshows]

It's kind of hard to think of actually transgressive subjects. A pro-animal abuse project? That would really unsettle folks, me included since i'm a bleeding heart animal activist type. Like, if you wanna elicit a response, choose something horrible that hasn't been done to death. That's what those old projects did. Pedophilia? Been done, but not by many.

I've pondered this subject quite a bit with a buddy of mine (my only noise friend, actually.) We asked the question "has transgression died?" I think it certainly feels like it since, along with the advent of the internet, "transgressive" topics have become so widely accessible and, unfortunately, commonplace. I agree that I think one could make an emotionally-distressing project by talking about topics that haven't really been talked about in countless other projects already. (Take your example, animal abuse.) That's pretty hard to do even if you get into niche topics. The only other possibility that we came up with is taking a relatively moderate or progressive political stance and taking it to the extreme. Say, instead of shouting "I like beating gay people on the street," you say, "I like beating straight people on the street." Even then, though, I don't think it'd evoke a huge response from the public, but I think it'd do a bit more than Nazi imagery has been for the past twenty years.

[thatonekidatshows]

i think there are still plenty of shocking/scary/offensive topics to have edgy lyrics and themes about without being a lame fascist or punching down

furthermore, does p.e. HAVE to offend someone? can't there be Power in a multitude of subject matters that aren't the same old tired tropes, what about Power Electronics that is like Uplifting and Edifying? (without having cheesey ambient pads or whatever)

This is exactly what I was wondering! Why is it that noise (especially power electronics) seems to be synonymous with dark subject matter? I mean, I guess it could be due to the origins of the genre that are merely perpetuated as the years go on, but you'd think that people would've wanted to somehow subvert those expectations by now... It could also be that the vast majority of people making noise music have no desire to pursue anything but dark subject matter. I mean, I definitely have no desire to do that. I'm just not inspired by happiness like I am anger and sadness. Perhaps people like myself created dark music and attracted people who are interested in that sort of thing, and they went on to make more dark music; thus, a cycle is created.

As for topics, I think you definitely have a point. I think it can be hard to write about such specific topics, though, because there just isn't a whole lot to write about. I mean, with pedophilia, you can write about the motivations, actions, and impacts of the behavior. You can center a whole project around that. With ghosts... "Oooooh! Boo! Spooky!" That's about it. I dunno, though. Maybe I'm just not very creative.

[thatonekidatshows]

Do you think there is value in artists discussing topics that they don't have first-hand experience with? I'd argue there is.

I think it comes down to how it is done, though. For an example, I want to write about eating disorders--a subject that fascinates me. I, myself, do not suffer from an eating disorder, though, so I don't know much about it beyond the symptoms one could find with a simple Google search. I think merely talking about a subject like that is pointless. I wanted to learn more about how people with eating disorders think and act, so I went lurking on the eating disorders subreddit. I also want to talk to people with an eating disorder about their experiences, but I don't know any. (Or, maybe I do...?)

Anyway, I think it has a different impact when somebody without the experience talks about it. I think it shows a great deal of empathy. People can use their art as a means to try to have people relate, or they can use their art to show a sort of understanding for anyone in the audience who might be struggling with whatever topic it is. At least, that's my hope.

I think it is a delicate task, though--to discuss something with which one does not have experience. You need to have that sort of empathy and understanding to avoid coming off as an asshole who's just presenting the topic to get a response.* Getting to that point takes a great deal of effort. Incorruptible Corpse talked about people coming up to him (pronoun?) after the show because it had an impact on them, and I would like people to feel similarly impacted by my work.

*This sentence is awful. I apologize for not being more articulate, but I have so much that I'm doing right now, and I just wanted to get my general thoughts down.