Neofolk

[SS1535]

Thoughts on Death in June?

Personally, I think Death in June is not only (obviously) one of the best neofolk bands in the history of the genre, but also an enduring and important force in the general realm of the post-industrial/punk underground---philosophically, aesthetically, and otherwise. I also really appreciate the overlap with/inspiration from Yukio Mishima.

My favorite albums have tended to be: All Pigs Must Die, The Wall of Sacrifice, Live in New York (DVD), and Sun Dogs (short, but excellent live versions of several tracks).

Which are you favorites?

[Bubble-Congeries]

"Neofolk" practically begins and ends for me with Death in June and Current 93. That said, I really like Nature and Organisation too. I am a massive David E. Williams fan as well, but IDK if he counts for genre purists. Nearly everything else feels contrived. Even stuff I like feels like it's reaching a bit, and the best of it doesn't lean too hard on the Neofolk label. Not going to name any names one way or the other.

I mostly like the 80's and 90's DIJ stuff. I don't keep up with stuff past the mid-2000's at all frankly (that's the major difference between DIJ and C93 for me... Yes, David, let me buy your shitty scraps and outrageously priced test pressings! I fall for it every time). Rose Clouds of Holocaust, But, What Ends When the Symbols Shatter? and Nada! are essential albums in my little brown book.

[SS1535]

Nature and Organization can be great for me too, but it feels more "off and on" to me sometimes than pure Di6 or Current 93 (the latter of which I have come to appreciate/enjoy only recently). I think it is time for me to go back through that material...

[ChicagoAnimal]

I don't understand the Death in June thing at all, and by extension most neofolk. The worst guitar playing and most "Mary Had a Little Lamb" songwriting, imo....

[Bubble-Congeries]

I was just thinking recently, despite how much I rag on neofolk, I do rather like Circle of Ouroborus and their wobbly, sort of abject Neofolk excursions.

But even they kind of push the limits of my patience for the genre. They do it weirdly enough not to seem annoyingly cliched though. And how about that somber-psychedelic folk-rock of Joyless? Again, perhaps not Neofolk proper, but I do like them a lot.

Not sure if Changes really count either. And despite my distaste for some of their lyrics (very corny and lame reactionary sentiments in some of their songs), I also think some of the forlorn (and yes, simple/non-technical) melodies are very beautiful.

Technical skill means nothing. Especially not to a guy who even struggles to remember the notes to Mary Had a Little Lamb!

[Natalia]

I really like ROME, especially the first several albums. I like when he mixes martial industrial and neofolk together especially. Really good songwriting and layering in his compositions. As an anarchist myself his frequent exploration of historical European anarchist movements interests me. He frequently explores history from very nuanced perspectives, which I appreciate.

Current 93 is a big love of mine as well, most of their discography honestly.

For Death In June, I pretty much only enjoy Nada! and But, What Ends When the Symbols Shatter? Most of his work does nothing for me.

[SS1535]

Current 93 is a big love of mine as well, most of their discography honestly.

Favorites from C93? I have only been getting into them for the past few months or so. There's just so much.

[Natalia]

Favorites from C93? I have only been getting into them for the past few months or so. There's just so much.

Depends what you want. Early industrial/tape loops era, I really like Dogs Blood Rising. Neofolk acoustic guitar sound, I love Thunder Perfect Mind and The Inmost Light (the trilogy). I really loved the album Sleep Has His House which is neofolk based around a harmonium as a primary instrument. For weirdo spooky sound collage/poetry kind of stuff, I really love I Have a Special Plan for This World.

[Scream & Writhe]

Current 93 is a big love of mine as well, most of their discography honestly.

Favorites from C93? I have only been getting into them for the past few months or so. There's just so much.

The C93 hill can seem insurmountable, but there are more or less specific eras one can focus on. As Natalia mentioned, Thunder Perfect Mind (1992) may be the project's magnum opus and set the trajectory that is still being followed through to today. I tend to stop at Black Ships Ate the Sky (2006), the last album before the irreplaceable departure of Michael Cashmore.

[Scream & Writhe]

For Death In June, I pretty much only enjoy Nada! and But, What Ends When the Symbols Shatter? Most of his work does nothing for me.

The World That Summer has been my go-to in recent years. Removing the clubbier-electronics of Nada! (no doubt on account of Patrick Leagas' departure) makes it a much more contemplative album, and is the most Crowley-infused work in the catalog. The Guilty Have No Pride, Rose Clouds and Peaceful Snow are other favourites.

[killhippies]

For C93, Of Ruine is easily my favorite. Swastikas for Noddy is a close second, though.

[Happiness, forever]

Favorites from C93? I have only been getting into them for the past few months or so. There's just so much.

Easily for someone exploring & looking for a foothold, I wld recommend the four compilations c93 put together. I think they’re all really good and worth the time even for longtime fans. There is a bunch of overlap, dig that weirdos vision. They cover nearly everything, and even some side groups, in some manner up to 2005.

Emblems: The Menstrual Years 2xCD (1993)
https://current931.bandcamp.com/album/emblems

Calling For Vanished Faces 2xCD (1999)
https://www.discogs.com/master/1192057- ... shed-Faces


SixSixSix:SickSickSick CD (2004)
https://current931.bandcamp.com/album/s ... sicksick-2

Judas As Black Moth 2xCD (2005)
https://www.discogs.com/master/89922-Cu ... Black-Moth


C93 I like thee most are:
Swastikas/Crooked Crosses
Christ And The Pale Queens
Imperium
Earth Covers Earth
the Emblems comp
Calling For Vanished Faces comp
Of Ruine or Some Blazing Starre
Sleep Has His House (3xCd version)
Faust
I Have A Special Plan For This World
Monohallucinatory Mountain

I fell outta the Black Ships In The Skies from this point.. too much piano, too much something idk…The recent materials I think may hold some interest for me, the lil bits I’ve heard…

[Scream & Writhe]

The recent materials I think may hold some interest for me, the lil bits I’ve heard…

The last two albums had me interested with the singles that were released but ultimately, while not bad, they don't seem to have much staying power (at least in the case of The Light Is Leaving Us All. I still need to revisit If a City...).

I was listening to Earth Covers Earth earlier, maybe the first of the great ones? Stumbled upon this quick podcast episode about it, worth a listen: https://www.idieyoudie.com/2022/09/18/w ... ers-earth/

[SS1535]

Favorites from C93? I have only been getting into them for the past few months or so. There's just so much.

Easily for someone exploring & looking for a foothold, I wld recommend the four compilations c93 put together. I think they’re all really good and worth the time even for longtime fans. There is a bunch of overlap, dig that weirdos vision. They cover nearly everything, and even some side groups, in some manner up to 2005.

Emblems: The Menstrual Years 2xCD (1993)
https://current931.bandcamp.com/album/emblems

Calling For Vanished Faces 2xCD (1999)
https://www.discogs.com/master/1192057- ... shed-Faces


SixSixSix:SickSickSick CD (2004)
https://current931.bandcamp.com/album/s ... sicksick-2

Judas As Black Moth 2xCD (2005)
https://www.discogs.com/master/89922-Cu ... Black-Moth


C93 I like thee most are:
Swastikas/Crooked Crosses
Christ And The Pale Queens
Imperium
Earth Covers Earth
the Emblems comp
Calling For Vanished Faces comp
Of Ruine or Some Blazing Starre
Sleep Has His House (3xCd version)
Faust
I Have A Special Plan For This World
Monohallucinatory Mountain

I fell outta the Black Ships In The Skies from this point.. too much piano, too much something idk…The recent materials I think may hold some interest for me, the lil bits I’ve heard…

SixSixSix:SickSickSick has been on my to-buy list for a while now. My favorite release from the project has been, without a doubt, Lucifer Over London. I was not aware of the other comps though!

[SS1535]

Favorites from C93? I have only been getting into them for the past few months or so. There's just so much.

Depends what you want. Early industrial/tape loops era, I really like Dogs Blood Rising. Neofolk acoustic guitar sound, I love Thunder Perfect Mind and The Inmost Light (the trilogy). I really loved the album Sleep Has His House which is neofolk based around a harmonium as a primary instrument. For weirdo spooky sound collage/poetry kind of stuff, I really love I Have a Special Plan for This World.

I haven't been able to get into the early industrial/loops material, but I would like to spend more time with it because I am a fan of Nurse With Wound (another semi-recent discovery for me), but the neofolk stuff has been more or less hit and miss (Thunder Perfect Mind is fantastic, but I find myself somewhat irritated by Tibet's vocals on other tracks). I think my favorite "sound" that he has done has been the cross between neofolk and soundscape/ambient sounds---like Lucifer Over London, which I mentioned in the above comment.

The more sound collage stuff is fun too. I only have Faust, which I got as a random buy at a record store, but it was really compelling.

[SS1535]

Current 93 is a big love of mine as well, most of their discography honestly.

Favorites from C93? I have only been getting into them for the past few months or so. There's just so much.

The C93 hill can seem insurmountable, but there are more or less specific eras one can focus on. As Natalia mentioned, Thunder Perfect Mind (1992) may be the project's magnum opus and set the trajectory that is still being followed through to today. I tend to stop at Black Ships Ate the Sky (2006), the last album before the irreplaceable departure of Michael Cashmore.

If it's not too much trouble, how would you break up/deliniate the devopment timeline?

[SS1535]

I would like to say also that the Current 93/Om split is very good.

[Natalia]

I haven't been able to get into the early industrial/loops material, but I would like to spend more time with it because I am a fan of Nurse With Wound (another semi-recent discovery for me), but the neofolk stuff has been more or less hit and miss (Thunder Perfect Mind is fantastic, but I find myself somewhat irritated by Tibet's vocals on other tracks). I think my favorite "sound" that he has done has been the cross between neofolk and soundscape/ambient sounds---like Lucifer Over London, which I mentioned in the above comment.

The more sound collage stuff is fun too. I only have Faust, which I got as a random buy at a record store, but it was really compelling.

The sound collage stuff is by far my favourite of Current 93, I Have a Special Plan for This World, Where The Long Shadows Fall, and The Starres are Marching Sadly Home are the three greats for me and showcase some of Steven Stapleton's strongest work in my opinion.

I feel I don't line up with the consensus of most C93 fans, I really love the post-Cashmore albums, and his last two, especially If A City Is Set Upon A Hill ; which is one of his strongest in his whole discography in my opinion. It's just really melancholic music, and I really like how Tibet's voice has aged.

[Scream & Writhe]

Favorites from C93? I have only been getting into them for the past few months or so. There's just so much.

The C93 hill can seem insurmountable, but there are more or less specific eras one can focus on. As Natalia mentioned, Thunder Perfect Mind (1992) may be the project's magnum opus and set the trajectory that is still being followed through to today. I tend to stop at Black Ships Ate the Sky (2006), the last album before the irreplaceable departure of Michael Cashmore.

If it's not too much trouble, how would you break up/deliniate the devopment timeline?

For my money it would be something like:

1983-1987
1987-1992
1992-2006

The "apocalyptic folk" era begins around 1987 with Imperium, with the full transition away from electronic/tape-based material (at least on the major albums) happening in 1988 with Earth Covers Earth and Swastikas for Noddy. Tibet moving away from certain interests (i.e. Crowley and Buddhism) and towards Christian Gnosticism more or less coincided with the introduction of Michael Cashmore into the lineup and Thunder Perfect Mind (1992) laid the groundwork for a good majority of what was to come after, both musically and lyrically. The major albums from this later era would be Thunder..., Of Ruine or Some Blazing Starre and All the Pretty Little Horses, but in my opinion all of the actual albums of this era are very good (the rest being Soft Black Stars, Sleep Has His House, and Black Ships Ate the Sky). Someone else would have to round out the post Black Ships... era.

There are outlier albums as well, like the Island collaboration with HOH (Hilmar Örn Hilmarsson) from 1990, which is something in the realm of new age, or the rock-band oriented Aleph at Hallucinatory Mountain from 2009. And all along there are more electronic/noise/ambient/tape EPs, bookends, etc. which are often vehicles for furthering Tibet's continuing collaborations with Steven Stapleton of Nurse With Wound. Two major ones bookend All the Pretty Little Horses to make The Inmost Light trilogy.

[Scream & Writhe]

I feel I don't line up with the consensus of most C93 fans, I really love the post-Cashmore albums, and his last two, especially If A City Is Set Upon A Hill ; which is one of his strongest in his whole discography in my opinion. It's just really melancholic music

I fully intend on revisiting that album with open ears, as on first listen I was enjoying it more than The Light is Leaving Us All. I think the reason why The Light... dried up for me was that it just felt a bit old hat by that point, and the guitar playing is miles away from what it was on the great albums.

I really like how Tibet's voice has aged.

That was what I liked most about the new material. His voice serves it quite well now.

[Happiness, forever]

Again I would go to the comps for everything pre-2005. From there you can find the styles you like and the albums to go towards to explore. I mean there really is a lot.
All of his work with Stapleton is for the better, IMO. Myself preferring Steve’s mixes and collaborations where he has a much heavier hand: his version of the Noddy/Nodding God (Crooked Crosses).
Michael Cashmore was the perfect gtrst for c93. His leaving had a very noticeable effect to my ears. The Andrew Liles years where he has the gtr and takes over Steven’s mixing, not so much for me.
The rock album of Hallucinatory Mountain is imo actually rlly good in the Mono version, a different mix altogether obviously, the reg version I don’t like so much.
I don’t mostly like the slow minimalist piano and Tibet singing material. I don’t like the live recordings.

[Scream & Writhe]

The Andrew Liles years where he [...] takes over Steven’s mixing, not so much for me.

This is a big part of it, too, that I sometimes neglect to acknowledge.

The rock album of Hallucinatory Mountain is imo actually rlly good in the Mono version, a different mix altogether obviously, the reg version I don’t like so much.

I haven't heard the mono version, I'll give it a listen. I may have only tried the album perhaps once, years ago - long before I'd really even heard any Current 93 at all. And those likely weren't a fair set of ears to lend it.

I don’t mostly like the slow minimalist piano and Tibet singing material. I don’t like the live recordings.

I like the 90s live albums, like As the World Disappears... (rec. 1990 and a good chunk can be heard on the second disc of the later Thunder Perfect Mind CD reissues), All Dolled Up Like Christ and Cats Drunk On Copper (rec. 1996 and 1997 respectively). The performances are looser, for sure, and there might be a few stumbles here and there, but that's C93 and overall these are just like a different flavour of the studio material to me, and the Of Ruine... material at the later shows is especially striking.

Speaking of piano, I'm also a sucker for the "unfinished" neo classical album Death in a Snow Leopard Winter from the mighty Nature and Organisation (Michael Cashmore's brainchild). The main album Beauty Reaps the Blood of Solitude (1994) features Rose McDowall, Douglas P. and David Tibet and stands as a monument in the canon of neofolk for sure.

[SS1535]

I haven't been able to get into the early industrial/loops material, but I would like to spend more time with it because I am a fan of Nurse With Wound (another semi-recent discovery for me), but the neofolk stuff has been more or less hit and miss (Thunder Perfect Mind is fantastic, but I find myself somewhat irritated by Tibet's vocals on other tracks). I think my favorite "sound" that he has done has been the cross between neofolk and soundscape/ambient sounds---like Lucifer Over London, which I mentioned in the above comment.

The more sound collage stuff is fun too. I only have Faust, which I got as a random buy at a record store, but it was really compelling.

The sound collage stuff is by far my favourite of Current 93, I Have a Special Plan for This World, Where The Long Shadows Fall, and The Starres are Marching Sadly Home are the three greats for me and showcase some of Steven Stapleton's strongest work in my opinion.

I feel I don't line up with the consensus of most C93 fans, I really love the post-Cashmore albums, and his last two, especially If A City Is Set Upon A Hill ; which is one of his strongest in his whole discography in my opinion. It's just really melancholic music, and I really like how Tibet's voice has aged.

I need to go back and listen to I Have a Special Plan for This World. I remember coming across it some years ago through the books of Thomas Ligotti, who I think participated on the album in some capacity.

[SS1535]

The C93 hill can seem insurmountable, but there are more or less specific eras one can focus on. As Natalia mentioned, Thunder Perfect Mind (1992) may be the project's magnum opus and set the trajectory that is still being followed through to today. I tend to stop at Black Ships Ate the Sky (2006), the last album before the irreplaceable departure of Michael Cashmore.

If it's not too much trouble, how would you break up/deliniate the devopment timeline?

For my money it would be something like:

1983-1987
1987-1992
1992-2006

The "apocalyptic folk" era begins around 1987 with Imperium, with the full transition away from electronic/tape-based material (at least on the major albums) happening in 1988 with Earth Covers Earth and Swastikas for Noddy. Tibet moving away from certain interests (i.e. Crowley and Buddhism) and towards Christian Gnosticism more or less coincided with the introduction of Michael Cashmore into the lineup and Thunder Perfect Mind (1992) laid the groundwork for a good majority of what was to come after, both musically and lyrically. The major albums from this later era would be Thunder..., Of Ruine or Some Blazing Starre and All the Pretty Little Horses, but in my opinion all of the actual albums of this era are very good (the rest being Soft Black Stars, Sleep Has His House, and Black Ships Ate the Sky). Someone else would have to round out the post Black Ships... era.

There are outlier albums as well, like the Island collaboration with HOH (Hilmar Örn Hilmarsson) from 1990, which is something in the realm of new age, or the rock-band oriented Aleph at Hallucinatory Mountain from 2009. And all along there are more electronic/noise/ambient/tape EPs, bookends, etc. which are often vehicles for furthering Tibet's continuing collaborations with Steven Stapleton of Nurse With Wound. Two major ones bookend All the Pretty Little Horses to make The Inmost Light trilogy.

Thank you very much for this! I think Bjork sings on one track in Island as well. It reminds me also that England's Hidden Reverse book for some more in-depth information on these guys. Speaking of it, has anyone read that book? Worth it?

[Happiness, forever]

It is a great book if you are into David Tibet & Current 93. Coil and Nurse parts cldve brought more joy, imo.